How to use 3.5 DnD without the "Big Six"

[Emirikol]

This is a great way to look at it ANy thoughts on spellcasters?

jh

I would say "Here, Player Characters, are your Free Bonuses!"

Level 1: Nothing
Level 2: +1 Attack and Damage
Level 3: +1 Saves
Level 4: +1 AC and DR
Level 5: +2 Ability Score A
Level 6: Nothing
Level 7: +2 Attack/Damage
Level 8: +2 Saves
Level 9: +2 AC and DR
Level 10: +2 Ability Score B
Level 11: Nothing
Level 12: +3 Attack/Damage
Level 13: +3 Saves
Level 14: +3 AC/DR
Level 15: +4 Ability Score A
Level 16: Nothing
Level 17: +4 Attack/Damage
Level 18: +4 Saves
Level 19: +4 AC/DR
Level 20: +4 Ability Score B
...etc.

"You're Welcome."

I might also give them less treasure to make up for it. MAYBE.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Okay, how about, instead of giving power to the characters, reducing the need for said power?

IMHO, this is needlessly complicated. It is quite easy to just build the effects of the Big Six into character abilities, as others have noted. Four PCs are a lot easier to deal with than every monster in the MMs. Moreover, the optimal progression of items is pretty obvious, and as others noted earlier, there's already a template for conferring replacement bonuses: Vow of Poverty. Customize it a bit for different archetypes (caster, damage-dealer, tank, etc.), slap on a "heroic path" name, and you're done.

I agree with Andy Collins that items that confer flat bonuses are just boring. I've been playing without +x boosting items since about a year after 3.0 came out, and never looked back.

 

[Kestrel]

Is the Vow of Poverty in the Book of Exalted Deeds? I would like to get the breakdown of the feat, but I really have no interest in that particular book.

 

[claven]

Is the Vow of Poverty in the Book of Exalted Deeds? I would like to get the breakdown of the feat, but I really have no interest in that particular book.

yes, the vow of poverty is in the book of exalted deeds.

 

[Woas]

I don't have a problem with all of the "big six". I have several fixes that are simple and painless that work for me.

First of all, I tell the players before the game even starts "Hey guys, don't expect to just buy items from the back of the DMG the moment you have the book-listed item price. Prices change and not all of those items listed are readily available."
So in that case, knowing is half the battle as they say. The way I deal with the other half of the battle is making sure magic items that are available/gained in loot is crafted to fit the game. I personally hate the ability-score boosting magic items like its my job. What I hate about them is that they are "always on" and thus the end result feels like a player is spending gold to simply "legally" cheat on their character sheet. Spend X amount of gold to perminently pencil in a 24 Strength, 26 Dex, etc...
So what have I done instead in the case of ability-score items? Easy, I make them into use-per day items. It fixes everything (for my game at least). Now those guantlets of ogre power only work twice a day and become a resource for characters to actively think about. The character still gets the benifit of having a +X Strength (or whatever ability score) bonus when they need to (like when they are fighting that ancient red dragon) but the item is a resource the character/player needs to think about.

There are other things I do for rest of the Big Six items including make them use/day items. Amulets of magical armor, rings of protection and like items tend to recieve the same treatment as ability-score boosters. But not always. I've had some items require material components to be 'feed' to the item for them to work. Or have given items some sort of drawback/small negative effect that could add up and become significant the more times an items is used.
Baisically it boils down to for me is making magic items interactive with the characters so they consiously know they have them.

 

[ashockney]

I would take a totally different approach. The issue with the big six is in part cost. It is also an issue of effectiveness. Being an MMORPG player, I enjoy making the decision between two comparable, cool magic items. In these instances, bonus to saves, attack and AC are critical - because of their effectiveness. Before ANYTHING else, you must seek these bonuses first. Therefore, you need to relax the standards and cost for having multiple powers on one item, especially one use effects. Push the envelope by making the decision between a +1 Longsword of Longstrider (1/day) and a +1 Bastard Sword of shocking grasp (1/day). Now you've got an interesting and compelling decision with very little differnce in pricing.

 

[Voadam]

We implemented recharge magic and house ruled it so that stat bonus does not equal bonus slots. This means spellcasting stats only are relevant for skills, max spell level, and spell DCs. My wizard did not replace a stolen intelligence circlet after we made this switch.

Doesn't help for warrior class stat boosters though.

 

[Klaus]

IMHO, this is needlessly complicated. It is quite easy to just build the effects of the Big Six into character abilities, as others have noted. Four PCs are a lot easier to deal with than every monster in the MMs. Moreover, the optimal progression of items is pretty obvious, and as others noted earlier, there's already a template for conferring replacement bonuses: Vow of Poverty. Customize it a bit for different archetypes (caster, damage-dealer, tank, etc.), slap on a "heroic path" name, and you're done.

I agree with Andy Collins that items that confer flat bonuses are just boring. I've been playing without +x boosting items since about a year after 3.0 came out, and never looked back.

The "others" who have mentioned Vow of Poverty was actually me.

 

[Cheiromancer]

What fraction of recommended wealth is normally bound up in "the big six"? Half? Three quarters? 90%? It'd be nice to price up some suggested distributions of bonuses (like Kamikaze Midget's suggestion) and see what a player could do to exploit them. For instance, if their shield, save and ability bonuses are all covered, could they pour all their remaining cash into a single weapon- would this be viable? If our system doesn't prevent this, then it's not much of an improvement over the status quo; no wealth has been freed up for quirky items.

Unless the proposal is to ban the big six and replace them with bonuses. Although I don't know how you would ban magic weapons and armor- those are too much of a staple item.

 

[Kestrel]

Well, for my own game, I would ban the Big Six and roll those bonuses into the character's themselves. Most magic items would come directly from adventuring and not available for purchase. This is actually what my PCs prefer. (If they want something special, they usually tell me and either seek it out in game or I'll give to them in loot if its too distracting from thier current adventures)

I would leave in crafting for charged, single use, and spell trigger items, so the party can craft those when they need, maybe playing with costs as needed. These items would be available for purchase.

As to magic weapons and armor...I was thinking of having them be special ability only. (i.e. Flaming Burst Sword, Fortified Plate Armor, Breastplate of Acid Resistance, etc). Possibly make the special abilities only usuable a few times a day.

Since the CR balance is taken care of, any magic items the party recieves are gravy...they don't have to have them to survive, but they are fun to have and hopefully give abilities that the PC didn't have by himself (Storage, special movement, skill increase etc)