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<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8107633" data-attributes="member: 72555">Except the Elven Wizard probably wants&nbsp; max int before either of those.If they started with 16-17 intelligence and 15 dex, they burned 2 ASIs on getting int to 20.&nbsp; Then they burned another ASI to get 17 dex.So they are level 16 before they take Athlete.If this feat is &quot;so good&quot; that a level 16 character picks it as their 4th ASI, it isn't OP at all.To show it is &quot;too strong&quot;, start looking at builds that would take it at level 1 (vhuman), level 4 or even level 6/8.&nbsp; Any feat that someone doing charop would wait until level 12+ isn't a super strong feat.Feats that, for someone doing charop, rival a +1 to all attacks/save DCs.PAM and XBE qualify.&nbsp; Lucky qualifies.&nbsp; Warcaster can qualify.&nbsp; Elven Accuracy is a half-feat that qualifies.&nbsp; The double scimitar feat even qualfiies, if more niche.&quot;Fixing&quot; a feat so that it becomes an ok pick at level 12 seems like patching holes in a boat on the bottom of the ocean.&nbsp; I want people to agonize over taking a feat, or getting an 18 or 20 in their prime state.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 8107633, member: 72555"] Except the Elven Wizard probably wants max int before either of those. If they started with 16-17 intelligence and 15 dex, they burned 2 ASIs on getting int to 20. Then they burned another ASI to get 17 dex. So they are [B]level 16[/B] before they take Athlete. If this feat is "so good" that a level 16 character picks it as their 4th ASI, it isn't OP at all. To show it is "too strong", start looking at builds that would take it at level 1 (vhuman), level 4 or even level 6/8. Any feat that someone doing charop would wait until level 12+ isn't a super strong feat. Feats that, for someone doing charop, rival a +1 to all attacks/save DCs. PAM and XBE qualify. Lucky qualifies. Warcaster can qualify. Elven Accuracy is a half-feat that qualifies. The double scimitar feat even qualfiies, if more niche. "Fixing" a feat so that it becomes an ok pick at level 12 seems like patching holes in a boat on the bottom of the ocean. I want people to agonize over taking a feat, or getting an 18 or 20 in their prime state. [/QUOTE]

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