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<blockquote data-quote="mneme" data-source="post: 4978950" data-attributes="member: 59248">By that logic, the much greater damage options of weapon-using strikers also devalue all non-damaging spells.&nbsp; No?I think the space is in exclusivity -- the key to things like this (and to diferent weapon types, and to racial feats and multiclass feats and dragonmarks and channel divinity feats) is that rather than presenting a single upgrade set, you present a set of exclusive upgrades -- thus, sure, as a whole you're upping the power available, if you do your job right, none of the options are clear winners compared to the others.&nbsp; The current space for implement prof is because there's a clean void on the implement side where on the martial side you've got not only superior weapons, but weapon type specific feats, weapon-specific multiclass feats, etc.&nbsp; The implement side has nice things like the White Lotus feats, but exclusive feats are allowed to be better than stackable things, for very good reasons.The way -I- would do it is that rather than having a superior implement at all, you have a bunch of implement specific feats, each of which is exclusive (eg, an Implement Mastery by another name).&nbsp; Take it, and all implements of that type are much better for you in some way.&nbsp; Another option is to have proficiencies (and superior implements don't get their specials for you if you don't have proficiency in them, or something).&nbsp; But there's certainly space in the design -- particularly since you can support pretty much any type (one space I didn't hit was an implement that gave save penalties, but that's another obvious place to go).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="mneme, post: 4978950, member: 59248"] By that logic, the much greater damage options of weapon-using strikers also devalue all non-damaging spells. No? I think the space is in exclusivity -- the key to things like this (and to diferent weapon types, and to racial feats and multiclass feats and dragonmarks and channel divinity feats) is that rather than presenting a single upgrade set, you present a set of exclusive upgrades -- thus, sure, as a whole you're upping the power available, if you do your job right, none of the options are clear winners compared to the others. The current space for implement prof is because there's a clean void on the implement side where on the martial side you've got not only superior weapons, but weapon type specific feats, weapon-specific multiclass feats, etc. The implement side has nice things like the White Lotus feats, but exclusive feats are allowed to be better than stackable things, for very good reasons. The way -I- would do it is that rather than having a superior implement at all, you have a bunch of implement specific feats, each of which is exclusive (eg, an Implement Mastery by another name). Take it, and all implements of that type are much better for you in some way. Another option is to have proficiencies (and superior implements don't get their specials for you if you don't have proficiency in them, or something). But there's certainly space in the design -- particularly since you can support pretty much any type (one space I didn't hit was an implement that gave save penalties, but that's another obvious place to go). [/QUOTE]

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