How would dropping spellcasting from dragons change the CR?

[Brennin Magalus]

I do not like spellcasting dragons at all. I do not mind a few spell-like abilities (except polymorph), but that's it. So I am wondering how I should adjust the CR of dragons to compensate.

 

[Scion]

Depending on the dragon it probably wouldnt change their cr hardly at all. If you are that worried about it though then drop their spell casting, give them one or two extra hd and up all of their stats by +2. This should simulate to some extent the healing capability and defensive spells.

 

[Nightfall]

Are we talking "true" dragons, those with age catagories and such? Or we discussing dragons that just have spellcasting abilities? Cause if it's the former, while dropping their ability to cast spells does hurt it won't seriously harm a Dragon's CR overall. If necessary you can just grant better DR and/or increase its breath weapon DC to compensate for it. But it's hardly THAT necessary.

 

[ruleslawyer]

It would change the CR a lot, depending on the dragon's age category.

An older dragon's spells are a crucial part of its makeup. Any strategy discussion on these boards involving older dragons will make that clear. However, I think it's an ad hoc issue, depending on the dragon's innate abilities and age.

 

[Nightfall]

True but I think lossing it spellcasting doesn't negate the fact its breath weapon (and the right amount of meta breath effects), plus some magical items can easily replace SOME of its spellcasting loss.

 

[Scion]

Dragons tend to be listed a bit low for their cr anyway, at least for some of them.

As others have said when you get to the really old ones their spellcasting matters to some degree, but they have to be 'very' old for it to matter a lot.

At best 1HD + 0.5HD/age category and +1/age category to every stat. Like I said above, this will simulate a good portion of their preventative and healing abilities. If you feel after the first few battles that the pc's are having too easy of a time with your dragons come back to the boards, say what you have done, ask forgiveness for changing the sacred dragons, and see what people have to suggest

 

[Stormborn]

According to Dragon #313's article on Dragon Delusions the "Nameless" delusion causes a dragon to loose all spellcasting and spell like abilites. The CR for the base creature is -1 per 5 levels of spellcaster lost. That seems resonable to me.

 

[Brennin Magalus]

Are we talking "true" dragons, those with age catagories and such?

Yes, that's what I had in mind.

 

[Brennin Magalus]

According to Dragon #313's article on Dragon Delusions the "Nameless" delusion causes a dragon to loose all spellcasting and spell like abilites. The CR for the base creature is -1 per 5 levels of spellcaster lost. That seems resonable to me.

That's interesting. Thanks for the reference; I'll have to look it up.

 

[Stormborn]

I reread that article last night, the template provides some benifits that may affect CR, although probablly not by much, since they mostly seem to be related to detection and some immunities. CR is increased by these abilites for dragons with out spellcasting. Something to keep in mind.