Lord Pendragon
First Post
That's also a sweet idea, particular the water elemental firefighters!
Pathfinder 1E How would you defend an airship?
That's also a sweet idea, particular the water elemental firefighters!
Protecting an airship is tricky. At first you should define what is the biggest threat you want to defend against as not every strategy defends against every enemy.
Against boarders and smaller flying monsters a closed airship instead of one with an open deck would fare well. Just don't forget several hatches to get people out when needed and observation cupolas both on the top and bottom of the ship. The downside of such a setup is that it will limit your weapon arcs extremely.
The propellers are an obvious weak spot and sadly you can't put much armor on them. Increase their hardness through magic as good as you can.
Against other airships such a closed design is a bit of a hindrance as it limits the weapons you can bring to bear unless you are positioned very well. Especially your upper weapon arcs suffer compared to an open deck. Running away (or ramming) also does not seem to be an option as bound elementals are likely much faster than your propeller design, especially when you put a lot of armor on it. Thats why I would also forgo an iron hull.
Misdirection is probably the best solution with invisibility and fog spells.
Against boarders and smaller flying monsters a closed airship instead of one with an open deck would fare well. Just don't forget several hatches to get people out when needed and observation cupolas both on the top and bottom of the ship. The downside of such a setup is that it will limit your weapon arcs extremely.
The propellers are an obvious weak spot and sadly you can't put much armor on them. Increase their hardness through magic as good as you can.
Against other airships such a closed design is a bit of a hindrance as it limits the weapons you can bring to bear unless you are positioned very well. Especially your upper weapon arcs suffer compared to an open deck. Running away (or ramming) also does not seem to be an option as bound elementals are likely much faster than your propeller design, especially when you put a lot of armor on it. Thats why I would also forgo an iron hull.
Misdirection is probably the best solution with invisibility and fog spells.
Lord Pendragon
First Post
I'd say our biggest threat is enemy airship artillery, both mundane (cannons) and magical (enemy spellcasters). We need to be able to withstand bombardment as we close to engage, or while exchanging fire if the enemy airship chooses to try and maintain distance or run.
I think we are fairly solid versus boarders. We have some strong melee combatants, so repulsing enemy boarders would be one of our strengths, along with boarding the enemy airship in turn.
This is a good point, I'll have to start looking into how we can protect them.
This is not necessarily a given. Our airship will not fly solely via propellers. In fact it was originally built to house a bound elemental as is standard in Eberron. However, we've been looking into alternatives to the bound-elemental design and recently heard of an engineer working on a similar project in Sharn. We ended our last session headed in that direction.
Once we meet with said engineer it's our hope that between him, myself, and the alchemist, we can perfect the design and build a prototype for our airship. I think it's entirely likely that the new engine will still be highly magical, perhaps running on dragonshards or some combination of shards and captured lightning.
That said, we won't know how it stacks up against traditional airships in regards to speed, etc. until we have the prototype fully operational.
We are definitely going to pursue this line of defense as well, but since I doubt we'll be able to avoid combat every time, I don't want to depend on it entirely. We've already taken the first step in that direction. When we started repairing the airship, we made a conscious decision to try and maintain its rundown, beat-up appearance, while repairing and upgrading the interior to the best of our ability. So while it's fully functional and seaworthy, the ship looks rather dilapidated upon first glance.
I definitely want to pursue the cloaking device/invisibility as another attempt to avoid conflict.
Beyond that though, a solid offense/defense is still a good idea I think.
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Hrm. Considering that we have two maxed out engineers, I wonder if it'd be possible to rebuild the propellers so that they can be folded in against the hull during combat. That could make them easier to protect...
But will also make you a sitting duck. Without speed and maneuverability you already lost the combat as ship to ship engagements are always about better positioning. Unless you find a good way to retain speed and maneuverability without the propellers a monitor design, a big, long range weapon on a turret might be preferable to the normal short range weapons or airships.
Wind Wall might block some smaller attacks but most weapons used by airships would likely fall into the siege weapon category not affected by WW. At high levels you can use Wall of Force to block attacks.
Problem is, so can the enemy, making a monitor design rather useless at range (except for very big guns) when the WoF is anchored to the ship (Skull&Shackles apparently has rules for that). Ballista Bolts of Disintegration seems like a good investment for offense.
Even as a monitor, you still need some close range weapons. Defense against enemies above you it a problem as most mundane weapons of non modern technology level do not have enough force behind them to travel very far upwards, while bombs fall down rather easily.
If you find a way to maintain good speeds despite heavy mass, a iron outer hull is the way to go. That should block most mundane weapons. Using Ironwood instead would be preferable, but you probably need to add individual armor pieces onto a normal hull as turning the entire ship into ironwood would require an insanely high caster level. And dont forget the Hardening spell if you can afford it.
Btw, about what size of a ship are we talking?
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Storminator
First Post
Get some way to quickly cross the distance to the enemy ship - far faster than flying there. Your best defense against enemy airships is to send PCs onto their decks. Perhaps develop a method of quickly freeing the enemy ship's bound elemental. Then you can both knock them out of the sky and further your ethos of freeing the elemental slaves.
PS
PS
LostSoul
Adventurer
Dimension Door has a long range. You could even make a "transporter" on your ship: it's expensive and only one-way, but if you can take them out and fly back you're good.
I think the most important things to protect yourself from are scrying and teleportation. That means Private Sanctum/Screen/False Vision and Dimensional Lock. Mind Blank would be nice, otherwise your enemies will always know (via Divination and Commune) where you are and where you are going to be, but very expensive.
Oh yeah, and Spell Immunity to Disintegrate. Otherwise your ship will have big holes in it in short order.
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Good point. A lot is going to depend on how well our prototype engine performs methinks. I should know more about that when we get to Sharn and I get a chance to talk with the engineer.
That may please the alchemist. He was talking about a giant "main gun" last session.
I am definitely thinking of Wall of Force possibly via a modified Symbol of Sealing spell scribed on the outer hull of the ship. I like the idea of having several runes flare into life on either side of the ship as it enters into combat.
Indeed. We also have both a monk and magus in the party, so by mid levels we should be able to Dimension Door to an enemy ship through Walls of Force to wreak havoc. Then again, they could very well have similar individuals. Of course, it just wouldn't be fun if nobody was mixing it up in hand-to-hand.
*nod* On the plus side, seeing as we have an alchemist, we could also use the bomb strategy ourselves potentially.
I've been told our ship is on the small side, as far as airships in the world go. I'd have to measure it next session for an exact size.
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Yeah, I'd gotten so excited about Walls of Force I completely forgot about Disintegrate.
RUMBLETiGER
Adventurer
The best defense is a good offense.
Weapons, many, many weapons.
See that everybody carries a Bag of Boulders.
Train Rust Monster Mounts and teach them to operate under Fly or Overland Flight. At-will Disintegrate against anything metal is spiffy.
See that your crew knows how to make the most of Dimension Door for group raiding parties.
...and then there are tons of offensive spells.
You don't need to use these weapons, simply be trained to know how, and let others know you're capable if provoked.
Weapons, many, many weapons.
See that everybody carries a Bag of Boulders.
Train Rust Monster Mounts and teach them to operate under Fly or Overland Flight. At-will Disintegrate against anything metal is spiffy.
See that your crew knows how to make the most of Dimension Door for group raiding parties.
...and then there are tons of offensive spells.
You don't need to use these weapons, simply be trained to know how, and let others know you're capable if provoked.
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