D&D 4E How would you simplify character creation in 4e?

[Shade]

I wouldn't simplify anything. I'd make sure to include entry-level products like the basic D&D game to serve as a "gateway game".

 

[Umbran]

I wouldn't mind seeing them take the Shadowrun/Star Wars route, and have a whole bunch of basic archetypal characters ready to use.

I wouldn't call this "simplified character creation", though, because the actual process of creating a character would still be just as involved. However, since I tend to like long-term characters, if there's a bit of work to be done at start and it gives me the flexibility to get what i really want, then I'm okay with that. To a point, anyway.

 

[Jackelope King]

How would I simplify it so that players could sit down and play and learn the game before making any real decisions?

First, you have to understand that sometimes, a newbie's "gut feeling" is actually a pretty good one. I introduced new players to my game and roleplaying in general by showing them the races and classes in the PHB. When we recruited a new player (a friend of ours), her eyes absolutely lit up when presented with the druid class and the picture of the druid. It was perfect! Turn into animals! That sounded like so much fun!

Similarly, the races are pretty easy to get your head aroud. Elves are graceful, orcs are brutish, dwarves are tough, humans are human. Simple, really.

However, what can be tough are the volume of skills and feats. I know new players tend to wind up swimming in the sheer volume of these when they just start.

So my solution? Minimize player choices at first level to Race and Class. Or even better, create a level-0 "introduction" for players to get their feet wet before they have to sort through feats to start customizing their characters. Make it so that I can bring a complete newbie in, have them generate ability scores and hit points, copy a few numbers off of the class chart, and then come in swinging. Character creation and customization is my favorite part of the game, but it's only really fun when you have an idea what you're doing, and expecting a newbie to do that on their first night playing... that's asking a lot.

In effect, by the time you start to learn about how the game works, you're ready to pick your first feat or talent or whatever.

 

[Cadfan]

delericho- An alternative to eliminating choice is postponing choice.

I agree that we don't know enough about 4e character creation to make a call.

 

[mmadsen]

The complexity in character generation comes from choices.

But it doesn't come simply from choices. A lot of complexity comes from how tightly coupled those choices are, with choices in one area affecting choices somewhere else, which then affect still other choices.

A streamlined D&D might look more like this:

• Every class includes a list of talents, like the Fighter's bonus feat list. Characters get one talent per level, period, and most talents have no prerequisites.
• Every class includes a list of primary skills and secondary skills. Characters get +1 per level in all primary skills and +1/2 per level in all secondary skills.

 

[Delta]

So, to make it easier for new players, I'd like to be able to sum up character creation in just six words: "Pick class. Pick race. Start playing."

A lot of the addictive goodness in D&D comes from playing your own, personalized, unique character. The new player experience simply must have that element. The way they pick a character really has to be the same core process that the rest of us use, so they can cleanly interface with the rest of the rules after they play the first time.

To me, that means that the core process itself has to get whittled down. After a lot of thought, I have a campaign that does this:
- 4 core races
- 4 core classes
- No skill points (see Unearthed Arcana)
- Only class bonus feats (i.e., none at 1st level)
- Spontaneous divine casters (see Unearthed Arcana)
- Fixed starting spell lists for spellcasters (in 3 flavors)

Therefore, 1st-level character generation looks like this, for all players:
- Roll abilities & arrange
- Pick race & class, roll hit points
- Spellcasters choose starting faction (spellbook)
- Buy equipment (from one-page basic list)

I think that's easy enough for first-time players, but it's not any different for expert players in my campaign. If you want expanded options, those are all pushed to higher levels: new spell selections, fighter feats start at 2nd level, etc. If you have expert players and that's not enough for them, start them at higher level, to whatever point the decisions match their taste.

A really important thing to remember is that D&D's hugest growth came in the 1978-1984 era when they had the "Basic Blue Set", limited to levels 1-3, and was intended to completely interface with the larger AD&D ruleset that was coming out at the same time. For some reason, TSR/WOTC has avoided that ever since, and IMO it's the biggest ongoing mistake the company ever made.

 

[Grazzt]

Just give them pregenerated characters once or twice until they learn the ropes.

Exactly what I've done with new players and my 3.x game.

 

[Delta]

The complexity in character generation comes from choices. To simplify, you basically need to eliminate choice, which is unfortunately not a desirable thing to do from the point of view of expert players. I don't think there's any real way of resolving this.

To recap: Just push some of the choices to higher levels. Then, start expert players at higher levels if so desired. 3E has too many of the choices front-loaded at first level.

 

[Li Shenron]

Start playing at 1st level.

 

[Nifft]

Start play at 1st level (and IMHO this includes making 1st level not suck).

SW Saga skills.

Sensible multi-classing rules; no more giant boost to saves, please.

Lots of options that are nice, but unnecessary; obvious generic choices that are actually pretty good even at high levels. In other words, reward system mastery without penalizing newbies. No more "Toughness" tier feats.

Cheers, -- N