HTWMDS - Does Greater Strength Make You Better at Hitting Things?

[Herremann the Wise]

Herremann the Wise's Mechanics Debate Series

Welcome everyone to this first in a series of mechanic's debates that I'm intending to post. There are many conundrums in the mapping of ideas to actual mechanics at the game table. Most of the time, it is easier to squeeze the round peg into the square hole rather than come up with a complex mechanic that fits but in practice fails. Or perhaps, someone can come up with the simple round peg that solves the problem at hand. I certainly hope to see lots of the latter.

I'm hoping this series will get those amongst us who love the idea of constructing games and mechanics thinking; and so, the first topic.

Does Greater Strength Make You Better at Hitting Things?

D&D in recent editions uses greater strength as both a benefit in hitting the opponent as well as dealing damage to them; but is this the case? It would seem a certain amount of strength is required to wield some weapons (such as a large battleaxe), without which a character would be unable to wield the thing effectively. However, does strength greater than that required to wield the weapon actually help you hit your target? To my mind, the answer is no. I think it is more a case of skill (measured as either BAB or half-level, or other bonuses) that makes the difference here. That strength is going to help a character dish out more damage. Increase their chance of hitting? I don't think so.

Your thoughts?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[fba827]

In my opinion ....

Because armor is an increase in AC rather than damage reduction, then the Str is added in the "to hit" as a way of showing the "can you hit hard enough to breach the armor" so in the to-hit equation, it is NOT representing the "skill in connecting with the target's body" (that's what all the rest of the to-hit equation is), the Str adjustment is the part of the equation that represents force to break through the armor.

If armor instead were damage reduction (rather than AC increase) then I would agree that Str is not needed, and infact is innappropriate, as part of the to-hit equation.

but that's just my thoughts.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Strength doesn't make you precise, but it helps to actually penetrate armor.

AR

 

[webrunner]

I'd say there's plenty STR does for accuracy in melee:
- The speed in which you can swing the weapon, both in 'wind up' and the actual swing, giving your opponent less chance to dodge
- The ability to hold the weapon steadier while you are swinging
- The ability to fight against the torque and other forces that come from swinging a large chunk of metal around.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Yep it does...but so does pretty much every ability, I'll rate them from 1 to 5 in amount of importance IMO:
STR: bash through armour and parries- 3
CON: as combat goes on keep the blows as strong and accurate -1
DEX: place blows accurately with hand/eye co-ord -5
INT: use your brains to figure the best techniques, areas to hit etc -2 or 3
WIS: use your perception to spot the weaknesses in armour, technique etc -1
CHA: none -0

But I am def a fan of using DEX as the main to hit ability, STR for the damage for melee basic attacks

 

[Oni]

Armour rather than resisting damage, makes one harder to hit. Strength lending to the ability to land a blow represents cutting through that armour.

Of course when you're busy cutting through this armour you never seem to damage it and I don't know why you'd gain the bonus on low or no armoured targets.

It is a simple system which is nice, but I hate to so heavily double dip on a stat for two such important things as damage and to hit.

I'd almost prefer to see damage and accuracy as their own stats to better model high damage from sources other brute strength, such as precision, speed, or knowledge of weak points.

 

[xechnao]

I think higher strength helps to stand a ground and fight. For example it could help you with blocking and use of body such as pushing or outbalancing that could give you an advantage or deny it to your enemy.

 

[Dausuul]

I'd almost prefer to see damage and accuracy as their own stats to better model high damage from sources other brute strength, such as precision, speed, or knowledge of weak points.

Personally, I'd like to see stat bonuses (and magic item bonuses, too) stripped out of attack values altogether. Calculate attack bonus for all powers strictly as a function of level and weapon proficiency; use stat bonuses only for calculating damage and rider effects. This would have a number of benefits:

• Encourage people to play "non-optimal" race/class combinations (which is to say, combinations where your race does not give a bonus to your primary stat).
• Simplify the math.
• Reduce magic item dependence.
• Allow more diversified stat choices, while still encouraging some focus on the "primary" stat to boost damage output.
• Get rid of one of the few remaining "it's a trap" elements of character design - not putting an 18+ in your primary stat.
• End the need for threads like this.

That said, I can see the case for using Strength as the main attack stat for heavy weapons. As others have pointed out, when armor is represented by reducing the chance to hit, it only makes sense that Strength should be used to penetrate that armor. Furthermore, the stronger you are, the faster you can move that big sword, and the more easily you can beat down your opponent's defenses by brute force.

 

[pawsplay]

- D&D includes armor in defense, so yes, strength helps you deliver a telling blow
- Str in D&D reflects fast muscle ability, so yes, strength is essential for wielding a weapon
- Combat is abstract, and a more powerful opponent will be able to batter down defenses and threaten grievous harm, so yes.
- Str allows a more powerful block and parry defense, allowing you to make better attacks, so yes.

I can't imagine Str in D&D not affecting to hit, unless you either make to-hit independent of any ability score or else invent a totally different set of ability scores.

 

[Zaukrie]

I'd think that nearly every swing "hits" your opponent in some way. I know that's pretty much how it works when my kids are fighting with "swords". If you are strong, a higher percent of those hits will wear out your opponent (or in D&D hit point terms, cause "damage"). It isn't simulating hitting, nearly all swings hit. It is simulating which of those hits exhaust your opponents' ability to continue fighting.