D&D 5E Humans!?

[Celebrim]

Ok, so we are playing a homebrew world in the game I'm playing in, I'm running a Dwarf Ranger 2/Barbarian 1 (recently started campaign)...

Have fun!

I think you misunderstand my objection here though. First, nothing about your description in any way separates the character from a human. There is no particular dwarf perspective on the events and no emotional reactions to the events which would be odd, surprising, or out of character for a human. No can we expect from the description that there is any further reaction that will be particularly odd, surprising or out of character for a human. As best as I can tell, the character's dwarfness adds nothing particular to his characterization that merely belonging to a particular human ethnic group couldn't add.

So, assuming that we have a character with this particular history, how do we go about giving him a particular dwarfness in a way that doesn't make him a caricature? One of my problems with non-human races is that they tend to be humans with bumps on their forehead and only manage to add mechanical variety to the setting without actually adding philosophical or social variety. Or to put it another way, if you didn't tell me your character was a dwarf and didn't attach to your character trivial cultural signifiers of being a dwarf like, "lives underground" and "has a beard", how would I know from his behavior that this was indeed a dwarf. How do you go about showing instead of telling that this is a dwarf?

This is at least doubly challenging. First, you must find a way to stop thinking like a human. Secondly, you must convince people who have never met a dwarf that this is quintessentially a dwarf even where he departs from expectations.

When I'm trying to play a non-human race, I spend a lot of time thinking about how their biology inherently would make them think differently than humans and what it actually is about them that makes them have stereotypes. I also try to separate what is merely cultural about the race from what is biological, and what is an unfair stereotype from a fair generalization.

For example, would a dwarf ever say the "he is a man"? Would a dwarf set out to find non-dwarf allies to settle an affair between dwarfs? What would a dwarf think of a dwarf that grew up without clan, and what would a dwarf think of himself in such a situation? Would a dwarf normally be fiercely protective of people he doesn't trust? What's going on in your character's head that is so basic, he doesn't even think about it unless challenged on it? What's going on in your character's head that would have to be explained to a human?

 

[Herr der Qual]

See, I don't view dwarves from Tolkien story telling, rather, from the source material, Norse Mythology. The original stories of dwarves paint them in a fairly human light, as being portrayed as super-masculine they also have accentuated flaws of those traits. They are strong, so they fight, they are serious and take to killing over petty disagreements, they love the beauty of certain minerals and would not sever themselves from such a trinket easily. They are master craftsmen and are patient to a fault (in Norse Mythology Alviss (all wise) sat at a task given to him by Thor until he was turned to stone by the sun). It's not so much that they are completely alien, Dwarves, Elves and Halflings are played so often because they are portrayals of extremes of human behaviours. We have people in our lives that we can identify with them because they are not completely alien, Elves have their obsessions as well as halflings and dwarves. If you want to think biologically. They are stout probably because they are subterranean that's just good planning on the gods part, they are long lived which means they aren't poisoned by oxygen as quickly as humans and probably have a slower metabolism, and for some reason they can survive without vitamin D because they can live underground indefinitely.

I think you are trying to imagine them as the most alien of creatures when elves and dwarves in particular were meant to be analogues of humans for moral storytelling in ancient cultures. Half-Orcs, Half-Elves, Dragonborn and Tieflings all have human blood and mostly human physiology which should make them fairly playable for anyone. Dragonborn and Tieflings in particular are described as having a non-human ancestor long ago, which means that they are predominately human, with a tinge of magic left in their blood from their ancient ancestors.

A dwarf or elf would most likely call themselves a "man" or "woman" because we don't have another intelligent race in our world, so we can only express things this way, as it is a genitive term, when you learn another language like German you learn that the word for Man is Mann and Woman is Frau. In english this makes my argument odd Mann is the root word of the english man, but the origins of the Germanic is the root of our understanding of ourselves therefore when say a dwarf learns common he would learn the common word for the dwarvish is man, and if their root works like ours he would understand himself as "being a man". Language brings us together.

 

[Grainger]

My entire campaign is centred around humans. I include other races, if only to give the players choice, and as such have woven the "big three" (Elves, Dwarves and Halflings) into the game world, but my game world is basically a medieval one - even the other races operate under this system.

Come to think of it, when playing a PC, I have only ever played a human (or, on one occasion, a half-human). All my current PC designs are humans.

"Humans seem so mundane to me in that world."

For me, history is far, far more interesting than fiction - it's constantly surprising and really is stranger than fiction, and it was all done by humans (often humans whose traits have been pilfered to make the classic demi-human races). As such, I'd never call humans "mundane". The other races are only doing stuff that humans can do anyway (assuming a world where magic and super-powers exist of course).

 

[Celebrim]

See, I don't view dwarves from Tolkien story telling, rather, from the source material, Norse Mythology.

It doesn't matter how particularly you view them, but rather how they are not human. If they are just humans with funny faces, I'm not really interested.

as being portrayed as super-masculine they also have accentuated flaws of those traits.

Well, see, that's at least a start.

and are patient to a fault (in Norse Mythology Alviss (all wise) sat at a task given to him by Thor until he was turned to stone by the sun).

And see, that's weird. One would not expect a human to set at a task until they died, nor would one expect to consider such a being 'all wise'. But perhaps dwarves would see that as perfectly natural and wise, and think the fool in this story is Thor. And that's not even to get into how a race would see the world if they turned into stone in sunlight.

It's not so much that they are completely alien, Dwarves, Elves and Halflings are played so often because they are portrayals of extremes of human behaviors.

Which doesn't interest me at all. When you set out to create a character, typically you tend to create an exaggerated character of a type anyway, so that they'll have memorable and easily recognizable traits. So having a race be merely a caricature of an existing human mode of behavior isn't really adding much to a setting.

A dwarf or elf would most likely call themselves a "man" or "woman" because we don't have another intelligent race in our world, so we can only express things this way...

But the dwarf himself would not only be able to express things in this way. At the very least, in the sense of the word you meant, he might say in common, "When I became an adult." But he would probably not assume that 'man' was the synonym of 'person' or 'adult male', because he himself would not be a human, and likely have his own way of expressing the idea of being an adult and responsible for oneself. He might say, "When I left my father's forge...", or "When I had earned my shield...", or any number of things other than unconsciously referencing humanity. He would just as likely say, "When I became a dwarf", and expect that a hearer would understand this to mean, "When I became an adult" rather than "I've changed my race." Or it could be that maturity in dwarf society isn't linked to physical maturity, and that he doesn't believe he is an adult yet or conversely that as an orphan he's been an adult since he was orphaned and either way other dwarves would recognize this. It could be that dwarves, prizing responsibility, never accepted the idea that youth was a barrier to having full responsibility and as such had no concept of adulthood. Perhaps dwarfs differ from humans in that they pretty much can and are expected to be responsible and carry their share from the time they can walk and talk. To a dwarf, it could be the phrase, "When I became a man", would be synonymous with "When I started using a chamber pot and wiping my own butt", and as such, something no one would ever say or qualify their statements with except to make a joke. A dwarf hearing a person say, "When I became a man, I left home to seek my fortune...", would have as his first thoughts, "You must have been very bold, to venture out in the world when so young and untrained. Surely your clan and family counseled against such a rash course? Why did you choose not to listen?"

Or even more extreme, it could be that dwarves are born as perfect little copies of their adult selves, or even more strangely aren't born at all but carved by their parents out of stone. In either case, the dwarf may have no concept of either childhood or adulthood. In the former case, trying to understand the phrase, "When I became a man...", would be interpreted as, "When I obtained my full size...", to be retorted with a jolly, "I am not yet a man, my belly gets rounder every year. Hahahaha", or else in the later case with a quizzical comment like, "What were you before?"

The point being that you can still be very close to human in many ways, and yet be very far away emotionally and biologically.

Tolkien's hobbits for example didn't mark adulthood until 33, and Merry and Pippin were regularly appalled if anyone mistook them for an adult despite the fact that they appear to have been old enough to make their own decisions and have their own income. Compare with primitive human societies that often marked it at 13. Tolkien's hobbits seem to expect that adulthood comes after having made something of oneself, and not merely becoming old enough to breed. Which suggests that they have a whole different way of looking at the world.

 

[Herr der Qual]

As such, I'd never call humans "mundane".

Mundane
adjective
1. common; ordinary; banal; unimaginative.
2. of or relating to this world or earth as contrasted with heaven; worldly; earthly:
mundane affairs.
3. of or relating to the world, universe, or earth.

And Celebrim, I get it, I will not be able to convert you to a demihuman character, if playing a human is all you want for the aspect of relation and "truth to the character" in my eyes, as these races don't exist in our reality it makes them more fun for me. Not only that but I dig being a dwarf, so much fun, I get to make a ruckus misunderstanding humans and showing people a what for at a forge of their own.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I find it fascinating that human's would want to play humans in a world where you can be the halfbastard spawn of a dragon, or the might under the mountain with greed coursing through your veins! Humans seem so mundane to me in that world.

What kind of ridiculous joke of a dragon-spawn is no more powerful than a mundane human?

I have a problem with any race where the mechanics don't match the fluff. I might choose to play a race because of the fluff, but if the mechanics don't back it up, then I can't take it seriously and I'll just avoid the whole thing entirely.

 

[Celebrim]

And Celebrim, I get it...

On the contrary, you don't get it at all. That's what's frustrating me.

No one plays a demihuman in my setting. It's not allowed. But that doesn't mean what you think it means. No one plays a demihuman in my setting because goblins, elves, dwarves, sidhe, fey, idreth and orine are not considered 'part human' or 'subhuman' or 'semihuman'. These races aren't held in comparison to humans, and none of them would see the others as more or less mundane than the other. The collective term for these races is "Free peoples". True demihumans, say a minotaur or a centaur, are considered too weird for a player to even relate to (even if they could be balanced).

In fact, humans in the setting are viewed as uncommonly strong strange and powerful beings, greatly to be feared and somewhat to be admired and envied. What evidence would any creature within the setting have that humans are less mighty, mythic, and magical than any other being? The powers that to you might seem mundane aren't mundane to a dwarf, idreth, or orine.

as these races don't exist in our reality it makes them more fun for me.

What bothers me is that most of the time, they don't seem to exist in the shared fantasy reality either. Instead, what you see is dwarfs having traits that are entirely the result of them not existing in our reality, but which they shouldn't have if they actually exist in the imagined reality. It strikes me usually that most fantasy races are just funny shaped humans even if biologically they should be really different than humans and see the world in a very different way. It strikes me most usually that an RPG race is much more well realized mechanically than they are as characters, and it often seems that mechanical attraction is the over riding concern in selecting a fantasy race with the choice in no way really informing how the character is played.

To give you some idea:

Elves: Age at about 1/9th the rate of humans. Childhood last decades. Pregnancy is a 7 year investment. Very few material things feel in any way permanent to them. Even rocks can visibly age. Must consume beauty in order to survive and will die without it as quickly and as surely (and as painfully) as a human deprived of water. Fragile compared to humans, and to avoid illness must avoid uncleanliness and communal living much more than humans. Unable to replace losses in war for centuries, and so must avoid violence and when they must defend themselves do so from ambush and with ranged weapons to minimize any possible losses. Deeply connected to and conversant with animals and plants. Able to subsist on a strictly vegan diet, and generally avoid meat for much the same reasons that a human - even one that enjoyed meat - would not eat their pets. Less passionate than humans in many areas, particularly regarding violence and sex.

Why they would not think humans are mundane: "They can live in filth and darkness and not die. They can make their own light from within. The fire within them burns short, but so bright and fierce! They are just as adaptable as we are, but far stronger and more durable." Humans are from the perspective of elves legendary and mythic!

Goblins: Nearly obligate carnivores. Subsist poorly on vegetable protein. Nocturnal. Eyes emit rays that allow them to see in the dark like radar (but conversely this means bright broad spectrum light overwhelms their vision leaving them in a 'white out' state). Age about 20% faster than humans, and mature at about twice the rate of humans. Engaged in widespread selective breeding of their own race to produce perfect physical examples of a caste. Basic goblins for example are meant to be of the laborer castes, and so require little subsistence, are highly tolerant of pain, heal quickly, have high resistance to disease and poisons, and are generally instinctively loyal and obedient (this last part is still being tweaked). High disease resistance means that they can live in squalor, filth, and cramped conditions with comparatively little fear. Highly social creatures, they actually prefer communal living and become distressed if alone. Unlike most other races, they see themselves as being as hideous and ugly as other races see them. Most take pride in their disgusting appearance. Highly fecund and can interbreed with most other races (and find pretty much every race more attractive than themselves). Humans are particularly prized as partners, and carefully introducing certain human traits to certain castes is known to be a species wide project.

Why they would not think humans are mundane: "You have to respect success. Consider the power of the humans and learn from them. They are an enemy that deserves our respect. They are not weak in their minds like the other races. They are as cunning as elves, as hard as dwarves, and as fierce as goblins. They make good slaves, and know how to sacrifice themselves for the greater good. They are lords of the day as we are lords of night. Even though they are not as varied as we are, each individual is capable of more. If we are to defeat them, we must learn their ways and find superior ones."

And so forth.

 

[Herr der Qual]

I think the context of my use of mundane is still being lost. I could have phrased some of my responses better. When I called humans mundane in a world of fantasy creatures mundane, I wasn't suggesting that humans are weak or mundane in that world I am saying that because we exist in our world I find them less interesting to role play.

 

[Grainger]

3. of or relating to the world, universe, or earth.

OK, but that's not what came across in your post, where it sounded like you meant "dreary". If all that you meant was "of the real world" then, sure. But I don't see that as inherently a problem. It's only a problem if it also means "dull" or whatever.

 

[Herr der Qual]

I started playing D&D in prison as a way to escape my bleak existence, as did most of the rest of my group, we are all out of prison now, and live fairly exiting lives but I still like to escape into the realm of fantasy and a big part of that is shedding my humanity for the fluff of races that I identify with more than my own.