Hybrid Characters: 272 Combinations?

[Nikosandros]

Well N=<19 since a bard can have up to 19 multiclass feats (17 multiclass feats plus the bard epic that gives 2 multiclass feats). Since currently N=16 counting swordmage but not artificer (sho doesn't yet have a multiclass feat) we could possibly have a bard with a multiclass feat for every single class

You're entirely correct. The "feat cap" won't have any effect until PHB3 is released...

 

[Flatus Maximus]

Btw Sum(C(16,n))n=1, n=16 = 78405, way less than 16! which is about 2.09e+13

Actually: Since Sum(C(m,n); n=0, ..., m) = 2^m, it follows that Sum(C(16,n); n=1, ...,16) = 2^16 - 1 = 65535. 16! is indeed a far larger number, approximately 2.09*10^13.

 

[malkav666]

Well in this case I think the design article is correct.

In previous editions a fighter/barbarian would be about the same as a barbarian fighter in so much as they would both have roughly the choices and could in fact be made exactly the same if one so desired.

Do to the way multiclassing is handled in 4e (which I personally do not like, but that is not a matter for this thread), a fighter who takes the barbarian multiclass feat is really a full blown fighter with a little bit of barbarian dashed in, and a barbarian who takes the fighter multiclass is just a fighter with a few barbarian perks. I think that they would remain different enough to be considered two different builds as they would draw the lion share of their class powers from two different lists. Point in case, you could not make the exact same character stroke for stroke when comparing a 4e fighter/barb vs. a 4e barb/fighter.

Whereas in older renditions (3e in this example) I could make a barb/fighter (take my first level barbarian and second as fighter) and a fighter/barb (the reverse) and the only thing stopping me from being able to get 100% duplicity between the two would be the way 3.e handles skills at level 1. The in combat maneuvers of these characters could be the exact same if I wished.

In 4e this is not the case. A fighter is a fighter no matter what type of multiclass topping I choose to sprinkle on top. (of which I have 16 different flavors to choose from at this time).

love,

malkav

 

[Nymrohd]

Actually: Since Sum(C(m,n); n=0, ..., m) = 2^m, it follows that Sum(C(16,n); n=1, ...,16) = 2^16 - 1 = 65535. 16! is indeed a far larger number, approximately 2.09*10^13.

Ah I knew that combination sums had a better formula, I just did that by hand, thanks. Incidentaly does Excel have a function for combinations? Anyway it is indeed a big number.

 

[Asmor]

Something like 16 choose 1 + 16 choose 2 + ... + 16 choose 16)

the sum on combinations C(16,n) for n=1 n=16

lol. We should be able to stat this guy (or gal) up in the CB next week.!!

You can do it now.

Well in this case I think the design article is correct.

That's because you're misunderstanding the question/problem; this is with respect to hybrid characters, not multiclass. There is no distinction between the two classes when it comes to hybrid.

 

[deadsmurf]

That's because you're misunderstanding the question/problem; this is with respect to hybrid characters, not multiclass. There is no distinction between the two classes when it comes to hybrid.

There is a little distinction - especially at low levels - whichever class you choose your Encounter Power from will feel slightly more primary than the other class. Later whichever class you use your Hybrid feature feat to pick up a feature for will feel slightly more primary too likely.

 

[Flatus Maximus]

Ah I knew that combination sums had a better formula, I just did that by hand, thanks. Incidentaly does Excel have a function for combinations? Anyway it is indeed a big number.

In Excel: COMBIN(m,n) = m choose n, and FACT = n!.

 

[Nymrohd]

Well yes there definitely is a feel of primary/secondary. However if we consider that level of variation on builds, then it is not just 136 or 272 but rather each possible combination of two classes with or without the feat, with each separate choice of the feat available, with or without paragon hybrid, with each separate choice of a second feat. That will increase the number in the several thousand different builds as well.

 

[gribble]

There is a little distinction - especially at low levels - whichever class you choose your Encounter Power from will feel slightly more primary than the other class.

Sure... but then there's way more than 272 combinations, because for every class combination there is a number of options equal to the sum of both classes number of encounter powers!
So I don't think that is what the article was trying to say...

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I'm not sure why it matters. Obviously they're thinking 17 x 16 = 272; even though that's not accurate, why on earth should anyone care? Is 272 possible combinations somehow exciting where 136 is not?