Charwoman Gene
Adventurer
I'm really liking these rules they do a good job of filling the 50% split whole, as well as making non-half-elf triple classing viable.
Hybrid Classes
- Thread starter Jack99
- Start date
malcolm_n
Adventurer
I set mine up like this.
[FONT="]Balance of Nature[/FONT]
[FONT="]You begin play with two at-will druid attack powers and one at-will attack power from your other hybrid class. At least one of those powers, and no more than two, must have the beast form keyword.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Wild Shape[/FONT]
[FONT="]You can use the Wild Shape druid power.
--
By writing it this way, it removes Balance of Nature as an option for Hybrid talent and still lets you choose whether you want to be more animal druid or not.
[/FONT]
Last edited:
WalterKovacs
First Post
I've made up rules for my players that includes the PH3 classes. That was the same thing I did with my Druid (hybridizing Balance of Nature). Some of the others are a bit harder actually. The Sorcerer, technically has only one class feature. I made it like the other strikers and gave a hybrid version of the "X Power" part of Dragon/Wild Magic that gives the damage bonus, limiting it to sorcerer attacks. Not sure what they should unlock using the feat though. They should be able to pick one of the magic 'paths' to be able to unlock the powers that give bonuses, but getting everything goes against the hybrid concept.
For the Shaman as well it involved giving a limited healing spirit, and starting with call spirit companion (but not the companion spirit class feature that you would have to take via the feat).
The others were a bit easier (Warden I went with only being able to mark one adjacent enemy; the barbarian I just gave rampage ... it's already locked into only working with barbarian powers anyway).
The basic rule was "give them the role defining power, don't give them the 'build' powers, like artful dodger or fey pact", which makes sense. You give them enough to accomplish about half their role (which can be full if you combine two classes of the same role) and give them the option to get one build out of one of the classes via the feat. In some cases (non-beast ranger, fighter, cleric, paladin, wizard) your build choice is independent of the build class feature, so they can work well as hybrid characters since they may be a bit less reliant on getting the feat to get the most out of their powers.
In order to test it out I was going to try out a ranger/rogue hybrid (half-orc to go with good STR and DEX). I was able to ensure that every encounter and daily power did not require a standard action. Hypothetically, by this method, you would be able to do both sneak attack and quarry damage for at least 3 rounds each encounter, not to mention the dailies and action point situations (assuming you hit of course). With a beast companion as your class feature you give yourself your own flanker as well. It has the potential at least to be better than 'just' a rogue or ranger, as you'd ultimately be able to do extra damage nearly every turn (the only exceptions would be when you lack combat advantage, the ability to attack your quarry and the ability to set a new quarry) and occaisionally get both extra damages off in the same turn. A ranger that can occaisionally deal more extra damage or a rogue that can still do some extra damage when he lacks combat advatage is pretty good, even if it means being unable to do that extra damage with dilletante or multiclass powers.
As for 'fixes' so far that I'll probably let my players use: Put the .5's into the places where they had already been rounded down, and will only round down after they've added them together. Also they'll be able to start with the feat for free.
On the subject of why they don't allow for say ... quarry damage on a basic attack. Ranger/rogue as stated above. Put it in a group with a warlord. If I hit sneak attack this turn, the warlord let's me get my quarry damage. If I hit quarry damage this turn, the warlord let's me get my sneak attack.
Losing the ability to do the damage on a charge (or with multiclass/dilletante powers) does kind of suck, but being able to double up with opportunity attacks or free attacks provided by other people is something they'd want to avoid.
For the Shaman as well it involved giving a limited healing spirit, and starting with call spirit companion (but not the companion spirit class feature that you would have to take via the feat).
The others were a bit easier (Warden I went with only being able to mark one adjacent enemy; the barbarian I just gave rampage ... it's already locked into only working with barbarian powers anyway).
The basic rule was "give them the role defining power, don't give them the 'build' powers, like artful dodger or fey pact", which makes sense. You give them enough to accomplish about half their role (which can be full if you combine two classes of the same role) and give them the option to get one build out of one of the classes via the feat. In some cases (non-beast ranger, fighter, cleric, paladin, wizard) your build choice is independent of the build class feature, so they can work well as hybrid characters since they may be a bit less reliant on getting the feat to get the most out of their powers.
In order to test it out I was going to try out a ranger/rogue hybrid (half-orc to go with good STR and DEX). I was able to ensure that every encounter and daily power did not require a standard action. Hypothetically, by this method, you would be able to do both sneak attack and quarry damage for at least 3 rounds each encounter, not to mention the dailies and action point situations (assuming you hit of course). With a beast companion as your class feature you give yourself your own flanker as well. It has the potential at least to be better than 'just' a rogue or ranger, as you'd ultimately be able to do extra damage nearly every turn (the only exceptions would be when you lack combat advantage, the ability to attack your quarry and the ability to set a new quarry) and occaisionally get both extra damages off in the same turn. A ranger that can occaisionally deal more extra damage or a rogue that can still do some extra damage when he lacks combat advatage is pretty good, even if it means being unable to do that extra damage with dilletante or multiclass powers.
As for 'fixes' so far that I'll probably let my players use: Put the .5's into the places where they had already been rounded down, and will only round down after they've added them together. Also they'll be able to start with the feat for free.
On the subject of why they don't allow for say ... quarry damage on a basic attack. Ranger/rogue as stated above. Put it in a group with a warlord. If I hit sneak attack this turn, the warlord let's me get my quarry damage. If I hit quarry damage this turn, the warlord let's me get my sneak attack.
Losing the ability to do the damage on a charge (or with multiclass/dilletante powers) does kind of suck, but being able to double up with opportunity attacks or free attacks provided by other people is something they'd want to avoid.
malcolm_n
Adventurer
Shaman - I let the shaman pick a spirit companion and it's shaman at-will had to be that companion's at-will power. Hybrid Talent unlocked the rest of the abilities of the companion spirit.
Sorcerer - Similarly, I gave Sorcerers their "Soul" feature and specified that they could only take hybrid talent to gain another feature from their spell source.
Barbarian - I did the same with Barbarian, but also gave him Rage Strike once per day so he could still use both of his rages in one encounter if he wants.
Warden - I did this one a bit differently. While I agree let them only mark one creature per round as free action, I also still let them have both at-wills they get as features. Since they're already limited to one free mark per round, there's no reason for them not to be able to take advantage of it like a paladin. It also makes hybrid into another defender role decent, since marking is generic.
Bard - Lesser healing and Multiclass versatility made sense here, even for hybridization. Then, you have your feats to take the multiclassing instead of having to give up an extra one for hybrid talent.
I disagree with "fixing" the classes. It's my belief that as a hybrid you're not as tough as a regular member of either class. Like multiclassing costs you feats, Hybrid costs you some hit points and features. But, that's just how I run it, since it keeps things like .5 out of D&D vocabulary (Nobody pass word of this on to Mark Rosewater over in Magic Land, or he'll suggest we make an Un-D&D for sure
)
Sorcerer - Similarly, I gave Sorcerers their "Soul" feature and specified that they could only take hybrid talent to gain another feature from their spell source.
Barbarian - I did the same with Barbarian, but also gave him Rage Strike once per day so he could still use both of his rages in one encounter if he wants.
Warden - I did this one a bit differently. While I agree let them only mark one creature per round as free action, I also still let them have both at-wills they get as features. Since they're already limited to one free mark per round, there's no reason for them not to be able to take advantage of it like a paladin. It also makes hybrid into another defender role decent, since marking is generic.
Bard - Lesser healing and Multiclass versatility made sense here, even for hybridization. Then, you have your feats to take the multiclassing instead of having to give up an extra one for hybrid talent.
I disagree with "fixing" the classes. It's my belief that as a hybrid you're not as tough as a regular member of either class. Like multiclassing costs you feats, Hybrid costs you some hit points and features. But, that's just how I run it, since it keeps things like .5 out of D&D vocabulary (Nobody pass word of this on to Mark Rosewater over in Magic Land, or he'll suggest we make an Un-D&D for sure
)
fissionessence
First Post
In my suggestion, I stated that only one [striker] feature could be used per round, so this wouldn't work. Worst case scenario:
1. I try to use an attack; I don't have combat advantage, so I'm trying to do quarry damage . . . but my attack misses, so I haven't used up my [striker] feature per round.
2. The warlord grants me an attack with combat advantage. Since I haven't used my [striker] feature, and now I have combat advantage, I'm attempting to add sneak attack on a hit.
You still don't get both. Once you've taken advantage of one feature, you can't take advantage of another one until your next turn.
~
There are two main issues I see with that as a solution:
1) It works for the striker damage features from the PHB. What happens when the hybrid rules expand to cover other, newer strikers, that might not use such a flat damage bonus mechanic?
2) Would you also have it prevented from use when using fighter marks, which have a similar restriction in the hybrid rules? If not, then you can have a Fighter/Striker that can basically act like a perfect defender all day long while doing striker level damage - the exact thing we want to have the hybrid rules avoid creating.
There needs to be trade-offs. Right now, I'm a fan of the method they are using to restrict these class features, as it very well fulfills the ability to be a full striker or a full defender at any given time, but not both at once. It does limit the usefulness of basic attacks and some other tactics, but that seems a fair trade for the versatility gained.
Stormtalon
First Post
A teleporting melee combatant that can curse, and possibly rampage? EEP! I'm now envisioning a Barblock (Warbarian?) critting, killing, poofing, and rampaging on the unlucky fool he appears next to....
All while raging....
