Hybrid sorcerer

[Cheesepie]

Another one of the PCs in a game we're going to play in soon expressed the desire to play a hybrid wizard/sorcerer, and considering a hybrid sorcerer class entry does not currently exist, I thought I'd whip one up.

This can't really be played at all without having the PH2 or the Dragon with the hybrid rules, so I hope this is okay to post.

Hybrid Sorceror

HYBRID CLASS TRAITS
Role: Striker
Power Source: Arcane
Key Ability: Charisma
Secondary Abilities: Strength, Dexterity
Armor Proficiencies: Cloth
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple melee, simple ranged
Implements: Daggers, staffs
Bonus to Defense: +1 Will
Hit Points at 1st Level: 6
Hit Points per Level Gained: 2
Healing Surges per Day: 3
Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha),
Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance
(Con), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha),
Nature (Wis)
Class Features: Spell Power

Spell Power: Choose Strength or Dexterity. You gain a bonus to the damage rolls of sorcerer powers or sorcerer paragon path powers equal to that modifier.
The bonus increases to your modifier + 2 at 11th level and your modifier + 4 at 21st level.
If you chose Strength, while you are not wearing heavy armor, you can use your Strength modifier in place of your Dexterity or Intelligence modifier to determine your AC.
If you gain the Spell Source class feature (via the Hybrid Talent feat or another way), you can only pick a source that shares the same base statistic as the one you picked for Spell Power, and you do not gain the bonus to damage rolls of arcane powers usually granted by that source.

Since a lot of the sorcerer's numbers are the same as the warlock's, I stole a lot from its entry.

Now, why I added a new class feature:
For all the other strikers that have hybrid class entries (rangers, rogues, warlocks), they have one class feature that give them their striker bonus damage (Hunter's Quarry, Sneak Attack, Warlock's Curse), and one class feature that they get to pick from a variety of different choices, and it (tends to) trigger bonus on powers (Fighting Style, Rogue Tactics, Eldritch Pact). All of the hybrids got a hybrid version of the former that only triggers on powers from that class, and do not get any of the latter (unless taken with Hybrid Talent.)

Problem with the sorcerer is that both of those features are combined into one class feature: Spell Source.

Another possible option here was to just make a Spell Source (hybrid), which only gives the features that I have listed in Spell Power. This is similar to the hybrid swordmage's Swordmage Aegis (hybrid). Why I didn't is because I felt the hybrid sorcerer loses a lot more not being able to take a feat to get the full Spell Power than the swordmage loses not being able to get a full version of Swordmage Aegis. It's a pretty hefty and cool class feature! Now, of course, the swordmage is compensated because it doesn't have to take a feat to start triggering bonus on powers, but I personally don't think it really makes up for losing full Spell Source for sorcerers.

Now, a few miscellaneous thoughts:
-Should the Strength-based hybrid sorcerer get the "Str to AC instead of Dex or Int" base, or should it only be with full Spell Source? I can't really decide.
-What may be a problem is that, man, with how I set this up currently, a hybrid sorcerer get a LOT of benefit from taking Hybrid Talent for Spell Source! Is this okay?
-I really wish this could be more elegant! WotC wasn't even thinking about hybrids when they finalized the sorcerer, I bet.

Anyway, wow, that ended up being pretty long. Thoughts? Opinions? Angry rants?

 

[Garthanos]

Um show me how this works... could you demo create a Fighter/Sorceror or Ranger/Sorceror or just something you think would be an interesting combo?

 

[CapnZapp]

Now, why I added a new class feature:
For all the other strikers that have hybrid class entries (rangers, rogues, warlocks), they have one class feature that give them their striker bonus damage (Hunter's Quarry, Sneak Attack, Warlock's Curse), and one class feature that they get to pick from a variety of different choices, and it (tends to) trigger bonus on powers (Fighting Style, Rogue Tactics, Eldritch Pact). All of the hybrids got a hybrid version of the former that only triggers on powers from that class, and do not get any of the latter (unless taken with Hybrid Talent.)

Problem with the sorcerer is that both of those features are combined into one class feature: Spell Source.

Another possible option here was to just make a Spell Source (hybrid), which only gives the features that I have listed in Spell Power. This is similar to the hybrid swordmage's Swordmage Aegis (hybrid). Why I didn't is because I felt the hybrid sorcerer loses a lot more not being able to take a feat to get the full Spell Power than the swordmage loses not being able to get a full version of Swordmage Aegis. It's a pretty hefty and cool class feature! Now, of course, the swordmage is compensated because it doesn't have to take a feat to start triggering bonus on powers, but I personally don't think it really makes up for losing full Spell Source for sorcerers.

I really feel you should go more into detail if you are asking for feedback on this. As it is, I had to re-read both the Dragon article and the Sorcerer entry in PHB2 to even begin to understand your problem.

As I understand it; hybrid Rangers, Rogues and Warlocks get only their striker bonus damage class feature. They don't get other class features, and the striker damage only works for the Ranger/Rogue/Warlock powers they choose.

What again is the problem of using this same solution for Sorcerers?

That is, giving them a reduced Spell Source class feature that
a) only works for Sorcerer powers
b) only gives the Sorcerer's take on striker bonus damage (i.e. Str/Dex modifier as bonus to damage)

...but noting that Hybrid Talent (or whatever the feat's called) can be used to take "the rest" of Spell Source (i.e. either Draconic Resilience/Soul/Scales or Chaos Burst/Unfettered Power/Wild Soul)?

 

[CapnZapp]

Or, more to the point, if a Ranger (or Warlock or whatever) is balanced with getting "half" his class features "for free" and half for the price of a feat, let us assume that is correct for Sorcerers too.

In other words, if any player feels the "half" they're getting for free is weak and underpowered, it follows that they must feel the half they can buy as a feat is strong and overpowered.

So ask them to take the bloody feat and stop complaining...! Problem solved!

 

[Starfox]

Dragon #375 has rules for a hybrid sorcerer.

I must say that gaining class bonuses only on class powers kills the entire hybrid idea for me. If I make a Rogue/caster hybrid, it's because I want to use sneak attack with spells; why would I bother otherwise? I would have preferred an upgrade to existing multiclass rules instead of this hybrid mish-mash. If fact, I wrote one myself; I will make a tread referencing it.

 

[Garthanos]

Dragon #375 has rules for a hybrid sorcerer.

I must say that gaining class bonuses only on class powers kills the entire hybrid idea for me. If I make a Rogue/caster hybrid, it's because I want to use sneak attack with spells; why would I bother otherwise? I would have preferred an upgrade to existing multiclass rules instead of this hybrid mish-mash. If fact, I wrote one myself; I will make a tread referencing it.

I am awaiting your thread, and the question is how many broken synergies are you trying to create or how many are they attempting to prevent... either way. WOTC seem to be conservative in this regard so I am not saying you are wrong, but it seems an obvious reason why... Barbarians included much of there strikerness directly in the powers themselves... strikerizing a power with a already strikerized effect sounds abusive.

 

[Starfox]

Starfox's Paragon Multiclassing (EN World post).

And yes, there is clearly a risk that this is overpowered. Especially at first sight. Thus, comments are welcome.