Hybrid Talent Feat

[MrMyth]

Yeah, the goal is that the hybrid character should be a blend of the two classes, but should never be the sum total of two of them. You have to choose where your focus will be. Its a balancing factor, and absolutely a needed one - class features can be strong, usually far stronger than a single feat, and the ability to combine several powerful ones would be far too abusable.

I do rather wish there was a 'Lesser Hybrid Talent' for some of the smaller abilities - things like a Monk's Unarmed Strike, which are far more flavor than actually a power boost.

 

[mysticknight232]

I understand that the point is to have part of each class, and i can appreciate that. But at the cost of other feats, it seems reasonable to me to allow you to take the Hybrid Talent Feat multiple times. If i'm lvl 4 and i want to take it three times, that means i'm missing out on 3 core feats like Expertise, Focus or Improved initiative (not trying to start a core feats debate, just using them as examples). Again, this sounds like a fair trade off to me in order to get a more complete class.

Admittedly, a single feat which grants you multiple armor/shield proficiencies is better than average, but again it's still costing you a feat to get what a straight class would get for free and i think that is fair.

 

[Herschel]

First level Human Avenger/Swordmage out-of-the-box could just take two hybrid feats and be nigh unhittable in standard encounters. Jack another +2 at level two before any magic item is even taken in to account.

Or a Barbarian Swordmage getting hide AND warding AND agility.

 

[keterys]

Hybrid Talents are generally far better than other feats. It's simply not balanced to allow it multiple times unfettered.

Now, there are a lot of things that could be done to boost up underpowered hybrids, but it's very possible to do some extremely powerful ones without unlimited hybrid talent.

 

[Mirtek]

Again, this sounds like a fair trade off to me in order to get a more complete class.

No, class features are much more powerful than what you can usually get for a feat slot. Trading a feat for them is not a fair trade at all-

 

[MrMyth]

But remember - you are already getting several class features for free, from both classes.

In the end, you do have an option if you want the complete features of one class - you don't play a hybrid character. You simply play that class, and perhaps add some multiclassing to expand your options.

Giving up those full class features is a choice you make as a hybrid character, and a necessary one. You are getting versatility and combined abilities from two classes - as well as the opportunity to combine features in powerful new ways.

Yes, it costs you some feats to gain your hybrid talents. But you've already noticed that giving out a ton of armor proficiencies (and sometimes defensive class features along with them) is a lot more power than you usually get from one feat. Now imagine that every single feat you spend gets to 'trade up' for a more powerful option - that's a really good deal!

Expertise is certainly an exceptional feat, and might remain on par with Hybrid Talent. But everything else? Can Weapon Focus really compare to a Hybrid Rogue/Ranger investing in Brutal Scoundrel, Prime Shot (and the potent feats available from that), Rogue Weapon Talent (another potential +1 to hit that stacks with everything)...

In the end, a Hybrid character with all the class features with both classes, and the handful of the most powerful feats he needs for his build, is going to come out ahead of a normal character with half the class features, and a bunch of extra feats that provide much smaller benefits.

Thus, the limitation on Hybrid Talent. The ability to get it a second time at Paragon, if willing to pay the price. I'd similarly be fine if there was an Epic Destiny that gave it once more - but having it freely available as often as you want for one feat? That would definitely be far too much.

 

[interwyrm]

You really can't select the Hybrid Talent Feat more than once? That's terrible. I already didn't like the hybrid classes, but my normal group wants to give them a shot by requiring everybody to play a hyrbid character. We thought that would be fun. Anyway, I assumed the feat worked exactly like the skill feat where each time you selected it, you'd just gain a one of the other benefits of it. I thought taking that multiple times would at least make the hybrid's playable but if you can only take the feat one time, i think that makes them a lot less appealing as a playable class.

Some classes lose a lot more than others. Pairing a class which *needs* hybrid talent with one which really doesn't allows for some pretty good options.

Unfortunately, most of the better options at this point are somewhat exploitative in nature (avenger/seeker) and will probably be errata'd.

On the other hand, it does let you try out neat things like a strength dumped Warlord|Wizard. (There are enough warlord powers out there that don't have an attack roll)

I'm also a big fan of Swordmage|Warlock to use eldritch strike on the aegis of assault attack.

 

[Obryn]

I understand that the point is to have part of each class, and i can appreciate that. But at the cost of other feats, it seems reasonable to me to allow you to take the Hybrid Talent Feat multiple times. If i'm lvl 4 and i want to take it three times, that means i'm missing out on 3 core feats like Expertise, Focus or Improved initiative (not trying to start a core feats debate, just using them as examples). Again, this sounds like a fair trade off to me in order to get a more complete class.

Admittedly, a single feat which grants you multiple armor/shield proficiencies is better than average, but again it's still costing you a feat to get what a straight class would get for free and i think that is fair.

Which would you rather have? Improved Initiative or a Warlock Pact Boon?

Combat Challenge, or Weapon Focus?

Hide Proficiency, or proficiency in all armors including plate and heavy shields?

Hybrid Talent is - generally speaking - way stronger than other feats. The fact that you want to take it three times is a pretty good indicator that this is the case.

-O

 

[Otterscrubber]

Well I was trying to make a Dragonborn Warlord/Sorceror or Cleric/Sorcerer. I'd be interested in any build suggestions folks have for that particular combo 11th Level, have fun....

 

[DracoSuave]

Again, this sounds like a fair trade off to me in order to get a more complete class.

If you wanted a complete class, you'd have taken a complete class.

Instead, you took the two incomplete classes option.