Hybrids

[Cassiopea]

Polymorph Any Object?

 

[Geocorona]

Polymorph Any Object to raise the size?

So why should Hybridize Beast be consider 9th level when PAO is only 8th? Polymorph Other is only 4th level, and seems like it's even more powerful for low-level spellcasters than Hybridize Beast.

The cost in consumables is 30 g.p. per HD. That could be raised. Or X.P. cost could be added to prevent overuse. Or maybe it could only be cast once-per-day no matter how many 4th level spells the character can cast.

 

[Wolf72]

I can't believe I missed this thread!

I can't believe I actually read through all 3 pages (well okay 2+) ... all of the posts were relatively short and to the point ...

I can't wait for my book to arrive ... I'm thinking of combining a panther/jaguar with a large constrictor or viper and then applying the psionic template (MadCoil from ElfQuest anyone?)

but first I really really should work on my thesis

 

[Krishnath]

Geocorona: The spell is considerably more powerful, as it creates an entirely new species from scratch. There is no living component to the spell. It is almost as powerful as the 'Create a species' spell from ELH. (The achaierai one...). Not to mention the almost insane life expectiancy of the creatures, often several hundred years.

Anyway's it's just a thought.

Later,

 

[CCamfield]

I can't believe I missed this thread!

Me too; it's great!

However I do have a problem with it: the random chances involved in determining the special abilities. It seems to me that a template should be more reliable; otherwise a creature could end up getting a whole bunch of abilities from both originals. It's not clear to me, but if one of the original creatures has a special ability, and the other has a different special ability, is it supposed to only get one of the two? And should this apply to abilities and attacks in common? (If one has a special attack only, and the other has a special ability only, it should only get one of the two, perhaps.)

 

[Geocorona]

Geocorona: The spell is considerably more powerful, as it creates an entirely new species from scratch. There is no living component to the spell.

It does require tissue samples from the two animals, so it really doesn't create new species from scratch. But maybe you're right about requiring living animals to make the spell considerably more difficult. But that would mean it could only be used right before or between adventures, making it somewhat useless unless you had a moat to fill. Or else it would be used as opportunities presented themselves, but that would require a game timeout to draw up the new beast.

Maybe the spell level could vary with target size. That could keep the spellcaster from building instant armies with it.
Example:

Tiny: 4th level
Small: 5th level
Medium 6th level
Large: 7th level
Huge: 8th level

 

[Krishnath]

I think that changing it to require two living creatures to cast, and dropping the automatic control of the creaeture, would balance the spell considerably, perhaps also giving the spell the [EVIL] modifier, as creating such an amalgation would be considered a perversion of the natural order (same as the animate dead spell). This would also reduce the spells usefullness for most adventuring parties, although some neutral wizards will be tempted to use the spell to create huge but docile beasts of burden.

 

[Nellisir]

I think that changing it to require two living creatures to cast, and dropping the automatic control of the creaeture, would balance the spell considerably, perhaps also giving the spell the [EVIL] modifier, as creating such an amalgation would be considered a perversion of the natural order (same as the animate dead spell). This would also reduce the spells usefullness for most adventuring parties, although some neutral wizards will be tempted to use the spell to create huge but docile beasts of burden.

I apologize if I'm covering something that's already been debated. Here's my opinion.

I'd definately require two actual, living, creatures to fuse. I'd also add a duration (1 hour per level or 1 day per level), drop the control feature, and add a HD cap instead of a size cap (maximum HD affected may not exceed caster level). Animals used as subjects in the spell may be allowed a Fortitude save, or may be required to make one to survive the spell's ending.

Wizards who want to control their creations will just have to use Charm Monster, or lots of kibbles.

Wizards who want permanent monsters should use permanency, with the caveat that offspring of hybridized creatures are nonmagical and immune to dispels.

Fertility will take care of itself, since offspring would require at least two transformed creatures, one permanency spell, and a very long waiting period.

I don't think an EVIL tag is required, but I do like the giant beast of burden idea. DMs who don't want a mass of hybridized creatures running around could increase the spell's level.

Nell.

 

[Devon]

I also agree that the Evil tag isn't necessarily warranted for this spell. "Science!" has no room for evil.

Here are my suggestions:

We have a series of spells starting at 4th level, up to 9th.

Spell: We make the mechanics for the first spell simple enough so that the subsequent spells (II through VI) need only say "as hybridize beast I, except for blahblahblah"
Fertility: Fertility can be based on how many hit dice the resulting creature has, as compared to the spellcaster's (for instance, if the resulting hybrid is half or less hit dice than the creator, then it can, with other members of its species, breed true). Make it so that more powerful casters can easily propogate hordes of smaller critters, but be unable to keep larger creatures for breeding purposes.

Size: Make the main difference between the various spell levels be the size of resulting hybrid, as offered above by Geocorona, but loosen it up a little to allow larger-than-Huge creatures at the highest levels. We shouldn't need to add permanency or polymorph any object to creatures if we don't have to.

Lifespan: Find a simpler, more hard-and-fast equation for hybrid lifespan, but keep it based on the wizard's hit dice and other factors, like Geocorona's original equation did. That was a good idea, but the equation is almost too complicated.

Hybrids Created: Make the number of hybrids possible based on a multiple of the caster level (for instance, an 8th-level caster could make 16 1-HD hybrids, 8 2-HD hybrids, 5 3-HD hybrids, 2 8-HD hybrids, etc.). Or not... one hit die per level could be enough. Absolutely require that the spellcaster have a "source pair" for each hybrid to be created.

- Devon

 

[Krishnath]

<Waiting for Geocorona's Comments>