Hydra AOO

[Delta]

I thought there was a previous poll on this, but I guess there isn't.

Feats: A hydra’s Combat Reflexes feat allows it to use all its heads for attacks of opportunity.

How do you interpret that for hydra AOO's?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I edited the poll options to correct for a hydra's Dex bonus - with a Dex of 12, its bonus is +1, not +2.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[Delta]

Dang, that was a mental glitch. Thank you.

 

[Slaved]

I take it that when you said one attack per opening that you mean one attack with a single head? I ask because the hydras statistic block gives its attack line as all of its heads.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I take it that when you said one attack per opening that you mean one attack with a single head? I ask because the hydras statistic block gives its attack line as all of its heads.

The text notes that "Hydras can attack with all their heads at no penalty, even if they move or charge during the round"; the argument is over whether this applies to the attack action and charge action only, or whether it also applies to an Attack of Opportunity.

-Hyp.

 

[Quartz]

Ah, but you only get one AoO from each opponent. Do you count each head as a seperate opponent?

It helps if you abstract it: if you have a wall with holes and the hydra puts each head in a seperate hole, on the other side it looks as if there are many monsters. Compare this with a similar wall with kobolds on the other side with spears. In the second example, each kobold will get an AoO, so therefore too in the first example each head will get an AoO.

A hydra is a very nasty monster.

 

[Rvdvelden]

Ah, but you only get one AoO from each opponent. Do you count each head as a seperate opponent?

It helps if you abstract it: if you have a wall with holes and the hydra puts each head in a seperate hole, on the other side it looks as if there are many monsters. Compare this with a similar wall with kobolds on the other side with spears. In the second example, each kobold will get an AoO, so therefore too in the first example each head will get an AoO.

A hydra is a very nasty monster.

If you follow that line of reasoning, a monster type creature with more than 2 sets of arms (4 arms in total) should get double the amount of attacks compared to a similar creature with 1 set of arms (2 arms), as it counts as two normal creatures (as to your example). IIRC, that isn't the case, as it still just 1 creature.

Granted, the hydra has multiple heads and you could argue it has multiple independant minds, but I don't think that is workable. Think about it, six minds commanding the body to go left, the other half to go right. IMHO you should treat the creature as one. I think the hydra is powerful enough as it is.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

If you follow that line of reasoning, a monster type creature with more than 2 sets of arms (4 arms in total) should get double the amount of attacks compared to a similar creature with 1 set of arms (2 arms), as it counts as two normal creatures (as to your example). IIRC, that isn't the case, as it still just 1 creature.

Compare the hydras attacks with, say, the six-armed Marilith. The Hydra has ALL it's heads listed as its basic attack as well as its full attack. The Marilith has its basic attack listed as a single longsword or a slam, and its full attack routine is all six armed appendages. There is even a sidebar stating that they hydra is intended to be particularly deadly without use of sundering to remove its heads. Also, there just isn't a compelling reason to make a special note about how Combat Reflexes affects a hydras AOO's except to try to clarify (they didn't do a good job of that mind you] that CR works as normal for hydras too except that its AOO's aren't just with ONE head but all of them.

It should get two seperate AoO's per round but each of them is comprised of an attack from each head. It is a particularly dangerous monster - as the sidebar notes.

 

[mvincent]

The Hydra has ALL it's heads listed as its basic attack as well as its full attack.

I agree that this interpretation has an edge in a debate regarding strict interpretation... not that this means anything in regard to the authors intent (especially considering the poll results).

here is even a sidebar stating that they hydra is intended to be particularly deadly without use of sundering to remove its heads.

Well, the hydra's description also says "Making a sunder attempt provokes an attack of opportunity"

there just isn't a compelling reason to make a special note about how Combat Reflexes affects a hydras AOO's except to try to clarify (they didn't do a good job of that mind you

The note could have been intended to make a change rather than a clarification.

 

[Delta]

I'm glad I asked this poll question now because, as a 3.0 player, it had never been brought to my attention the uniqueness of the Hydra "attack" line in 3.5, nor have I ever seen the sidebar that's in the 3.5 MM.

Now I'm idly wondering if the poll were specific to 3.0 if the results would be any more skewed than they are right now.