Hydras and Polymorph

[Basin?]

Hello,

I just gained the ability to polymorph and I was wondering how it would work exactly if I polymorphed into an eleven-headed hydra. Do I get all eleven head attacks? When people cut off my heads does it take my hit points away in the same fashion as it does for a hydra? I'm finding this rather confusing. I'd only like the official answer please, not houserules.

Thanks,

Basin?

 

[Thanee]

Well, you definitely get the 11 attacks, since you gain the creatures natural attack routine.

About the question with the heads, I'd just let all attacks hit the body as normal. Not sure, if you can have the heads cut off and regrow them, the first sounds kinda reasonable, but the regrowing sounds rather like something you would not gain via polymorph, therefore I'd just drop the whole sundering heads part and just let it work as with every other monster, where attacks simply deduct from the hit points. You are not a real hydra after all, just something pretty similar.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

Not sure, if you can have the heads cut off and regrow them, the first sounds kinda reasonable, but the regrowing sounds rather like something you would not gain via polymorph...

It's not Su, Ex, or Sp. Therefore it's a Natural ability, which you get

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

And where does it say that?

Has this been clarified in the RotG article about Polymorph?

Since the spell description, only really speaks of (Ex) Attacks, (Ex) Qualities and (Sp)/(Su) abilities.

Alter Self lists quite specifically what you get, and that is not among those abilities/qualities listed. The only item where it might fit under would be "gross physical qualities", but that doesn't really seem to fit either. It means you do have the heads, but not that you can regrow them, I believe.

More importantly, the regrowing of heads does not really fit into the range of abilities you normally gain (no regeneration, no fast healing, etc).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

And where does it say that?

It's an old 3E Sage Advice joke.

The 3E Polymorph Other spell stated that you get 'natural abilities'.

"What are natural abilities?" we asked.
"Anything that isn't [Su], [Ex], or [Sp]," the Sage replied.

There were only about four things in the 3E Monster Manual that fitted that definition, and three of them were to do with the Hydra - the ability to attack with all its heads even after a move or charge, the Lernean hydra's body's immunity to damage, and the Lernean hydra's regrowing-heads ability.

Two of those, at least, don't seem all that 'natural', which made the Sage's definition of 'natural abilities' fairly suspect

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

Hmm... on a fairly unrelated note... the Lernean hydras seem to have been stronger, they survived the darwinian evolution. The others not.

On the other hand, that body immunity seems to have been lost on the way...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Iku Rex]

3.0 polymorph. Yay.

It's an old 3E Sage Advice joke.

The 3E Polymorph Other spell stated that you get 'natural abilities'.

"What are natural abilities?" we asked.
"Anything that isn't [Su], [Ex], or [Sp]," the Sage replied.

...which is an answer straight out of the 3.0 PH (page 158).

There was also a glossary entry for "natural abilities", though that included some things, like natural attack routines and low-light vision, you apparently weren't supposed to get with polymorph.

(True to form they also put in an entry for "natural ability" in the 3.5 glossary, but it doesn't match the definition on page 180 in the 3.5 PH.)

There were only about four things in the 3E Monster Manual that fitted that definition,

Rubbish. For example, the ability to fly is a natural ability. I count more than four flying creatures in the MM.

... Two of those, at least, don't seem all that 'natural', which made the Sage's definition of 'natural abilities' fairly suspect .

Skip Williams is/was to blame, but as "the author of the MM", not as "the Sage". The abilities in question should have been extraordinary.

As for 3.5 polymorph, someone decided to remove the reference to "natural abilities". Instead you get "physical qualities", as defined in the spell (through alter self).

(As it turns out, "physical qualities" are indistinguishable from "natural abilities". Skip doesn't seem to have caught the change - his articles on polymorph still talk about "natural abilities".)

 

[Hypersmurf]

3.0 polymorph. Yay.
...which is an answer straight out of the 3.0 PH (page 158).

And which contradicted the definition in the spell, as well - for example, the spell listed Rake and Constrict as natural abilities, which were [Ex] in the entry for every monster that had them...

-Hyp.

 

[sledged]

And which contradicted the definition in the spell, as well - for example, the spell listed Rake and Constrict as natural abilities, which were [Ex] in the entry for every monster that had them...

Perhaps they were naturally exceptional... or exceptionally natural.

 

[Iku Rex]

(Never try to out-nitpick Iku Rex when it comes to polymorph. )

And which contradicted the definition in the spell, as well - for example, the spell listed Rake and Constrict as natural abilities, which were [Ex] in the entry for every monster that had them...

The spell listed claws, bite, swoop and rake, and constriction as examples of natural weapons.

Claw, bite and rake were the names of natural weapons. (That's right, rake was the name of a natural weapon, completely separate from the (Ex) ability. It looks like they may actually have fixed this in 3.5, by re-naming the natural weapon to "talon".) There were no natural weapons or extraordinary abilities called "constriction" or "swoop". (There were in AD&D.)

The point of all this? The problem was not the definition of natural abilities, but AD&D holdovers in polymorph's messed up spell description.