RangerWickett
Legend
I did like me some FF6.
And FF8.
And Brave Fencer Musashi. Maybe that one doesn't count.
And FF8.
And Brave Fencer Musashi. Maybe that one doesn't count.
ZEITGEIST I absolutely love the power scaling of Zeitgeist
EarthSeraphEdna
Explorer
Thinking about things this way, I have come to realize that under my sensibilities, an ideally world-built RPG setting is not simply one that is pretty and satisfying to read about, and that PCs can go on all kinds of adventures inside.
No, what really makes a good RPG setting for a power fantasy is a world that is built to be toppled like a stack of dominoes, and then reconstructed into something new. A place ripe for vast and sweeping advancements and reforms at the PCs' hands.
Settings like the Forgotten Realms and Eberron may be heavily fleshed-out, but their potential for change at the PCs' hands is middling. Settings like those of Exalted and Godbound are, in theory, asking to be heavily altered by demigod PCs, but the preexisting competition is plentiful enough that the PCs will only ever have a relatively small share of the world-changing deeds. Although Zeitgeist does present competition, they can be completely wiped out, letting the PCs become the sole determinators of the new shape of the world.
Zeitgeist has significantly changed my overall perspective on RPG settings.
No, what really makes a good RPG setting for a power fantasy is a world that is built to be toppled like a stack of dominoes, and then reconstructed into something new. A place ripe for vast and sweeping advancements and reforms at the PCs' hands.
Settings like the Forgotten Realms and Eberron may be heavily fleshed-out, but their potential for change at the PCs' hands is middling. Settings like those of Exalted and Godbound are, in theory, asking to be heavily altered by demigod PCs, but the preexisting competition is plentiful enough that the PCs will only ever have a relatively small share of the world-changing deeds. Although Zeitgeist does present competition, they can be completely wiped out, letting the PCs become the sole determinators of the new shape of the world.
Zeitgeist has significantly changed my overall perspective on RPG settings.
hirou
Explorer
I see that you took OB's methods to heart
EarthSeraphEdna
Explorer
The Obscurati generally favors assimilation more than decimation, if book #13 is anything to go by.
It is not unreasonable for some parties to favor assimilating the Obscurati rather than destroying them; the book generally does not care whether the party kills or assimilates. Our own run of Zeitgeist favored assimilation, as early as book #7, running off with a large majority of the convocation's officers.
It is not unreasonable for some parties to favor assimilating the Obscurati rather than destroying them; the book generally does not care whether the party kills or assimilates. Our own run of Zeitgeist favored assimilation, as early as book #7, running off with a large majority of the convocation's officers.
Andrew Moreton
Adventurer
Your group may want to look at Way of the Wicked for PF1E, there is the same chance to change the world by overthrowing the existing order and by the end of the campaign there are only the pc's and their direct peers the champions of good who have reached earthshaking power levels . My players avoided the final battle by challanging the princess to a duel pointing out that the armies no longer matterred and they could save the useless effusion of blood between their armies as whichever champions won could defeat the enemy army on their own
EarthSeraphEdna
Explorer
I was a fan of the setup of Way of the Wicked, but the precise execution left much to be desired. I do not think the worldbuilding was good enough for the one island nation for me to really get too invested in it; the setting felt very hollow and one-dimensional, and the entire adventure path felt more like a relatively low-level campaign for evil characters rather than a 1st to 20th campaign.
It would be like if Zeitgeist was set in Crisillyir and little else.
It would be like if Zeitgeist was set in Crisillyir and little else.
Speed_demon
Villager
Oh, I definitely love it too, the power scaling is great. The PCs can and do feel like daring adventurers and spies in just the first adventure, first session even really. My group uses 4e, and we've really liked that, I feel the 1st level characters there are a bit more robust to start.
The game scales well, giving reasons as to why things are capped to begin with, the PCs fairly skilled from the get go, rising up as competent investigators to some of the greatest agents in the world throughout the first book, then to the nation deciding levels in the second book, capable of preforming incredible feats, surviving mind-boggling dangers and seeing incredible magical and technological advancements, and finally opening things up to Epic as it hits the final four adventures, deciding the fate of the world and changing reality itself. I love it so much.
The game scales well, giving reasons as to why things are capped to begin with, the PCs fairly skilled from the get go, rising up as competent investigators to some of the greatest agents in the world throughout the first book, then to the nation deciding levels in the second book, capable of preforming incredible feats, surviving mind-boggling dangers and seeing incredible magical and technological advancements, and finally opening things up to Epic as it hits the final four adventures, deciding the fate of the world and changing reality itself. I love it so much.
Without wanting to derail, but yes! We've played Way of the Wicked and really loved its premise. Especially as it pulls off the "how to make an evil campaign that does work out for all involved players" really compelling. But it does fall flat in many ways, being far too strict in terms of railroadyness regarding the plotline. Oh and... it really overdid the "good guys being intolerant 'bad guys'" a bit.
(And Yep, we tried to be on really good terms with Thorn, as our youth-like characters saw him as a mentor figure sent by Asmodeus. So the betrayal literally came out of nowhere. We brushed it off as "he was overcome by fear of our growing power and thus too weak to rule")
Andrew Moreton
Adventurer
My viewpoint on Way of the Wicked may have been warped as I ran about 5 or 6 extra AP modules in parts of it as sub and side plots . The amount of time that added is why I am trying to add very little to this campaign.
I don't think my players felt railroaded after book 2 as they then had a lot of discretion about how they carried out their orders , and they always expected to fall out with their allies as they were too ambitous to be second fiddle and thought his plans were too unsubtle.
Also never let players add the Vampire template to their characters and then get the Occult ritual which protects then from all the bad features. It leads to Diplomacy scores sufficient that if you pay any attention to the rules , then they can just talk to any Paladin and persuade him to become a asmodeus cultist.
In fact one of the pc's from that campaign is probably makeing a guest appearance in this one as a bad guy , just because my players fear this.
I don't think my players felt railroaded after book 2 as they then had a lot of discretion about how they carried out their orders , and they always expected to fall out with their allies as they were too ambitous to be second fiddle and thought his plans were too unsubtle.
Also never let players add the Vampire template to their characters and then get the Occult ritual which protects then from all the bad features. It leads to Diplomacy scores sufficient that if you pay any attention to the rules , then they can just talk to any Paladin and persuade him to become a asmodeus cultist.
In fact one of the pc's from that campaign is probably makeing a guest appearance in this one as a bad guy , just because my players fear this.
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