I cast a blast spell, you say: how high?

[Particle_Man]

"Realism" questions aside (an odd thing when talking about magical stuff) is there anything wrong game-wise with indefinitely high bursts/blasts that hug the ground? It seems to resolve most of the questions about whether one can aim high to miss one's friends (answer: no) and whether one can hit flying creatures (answer: yes).

I think that people are not used to the idea, just as they were not used to the idea of diagonal movement being 1 space, or cubes instead of spheres. But it seems to work gamewise and people can adjust to the new reality given time, thus making a new benchmark for realism.

 

[Destil]

It is a bit insane, 'cos a ranger can't shoot it, while a wizard can thunder wave it?

He dosn't need to shoot it. Get under it and use one of the melee 'Burst 1' powers.

 

[James McMurray]

"Realism" questions aside (an odd thing when talking about magical stuff) is there anything wrong game-wise with indefinitely high bursts/blasts that hug the ground? It seems to resolve most of the questions about whether one can aim high to miss one's friends (answer: no) and whether one can hit flying creatures (answer: yes).

There's a huge problem with it: it makes burst 1 powers better at striking distant opponents than powers with range 20, but only in the odd situation that the enemy is in the air.

 

[Just Another User]

"Realism" questions aside (an odd thing when talking about magical stuff) is there anything wrong game-wise with indefinitely high bursts/blasts that hug the ground? It seems to resolve most of the questions about whether one can aim high to miss one's friends (answer: no) and whether one can hit flying creatures (answer: yes).

The main problem I can think of is that the fighters have them, too, and even non simulationists have to admit that is a little weird for a fighter hit a dragon flying 100 feet above him with a swing of his sword.

Another problem could be, what happen if you use them in a multistory building? or even use a fire burst attack inside a building with a combustible roof?

but I suppose it could be interesting. I could see this burst attacks being used for long range communications, they should be visible from a long distance, especially if done at night, just come up with some kind of code and you have the equivalent of smoke signals or an heliograph.

 

[chaotix42]

Excuse me, but you got your Flame Strike in my Burning Hands.

 

[Andur]

Blasts should be considered one square high, determining who gets hit by them at angles is fairly simple, just turn the "grid" on its "side" and then follow the same rules for moving through squares which have a corner cut off, just don't do 45 deg. angles. For the example given of 15' away and 10' high, you could hit foes adjacent to you with the blast and then either foes on the ground or at 5' elevation at the 2 square mark, and then the enemies on the 10' elevation at the 3 square mark. (Ground being actually 0' elevation so 0-5' is one square, 5-10' is two square, and 10-'15' is three squares.

As far as why blast being indefinite "up", what happens in a 100' long hall and the wizard flies over an enemy, and does a blast looking down at his opponent? the blast hits the enemy, and then goes "up" along the hallway forever.

 

[Jack Colby]

Honestly... If your DM (or you, if you are the DM) can't easily judge this situation and make a sensible ruling, I don't know what to say. Maybe this kind of "imagination" game isn't for you?

 

[Danceofmasks]

That's not the point here.
Apparently custserv reckons infinitely high blasts is how the game officially works.

 

[N0Man]

There are a few reasonable DM rulings. A DM just needs to pick one and stick with it.

I think the most reasonable way (or at least the way I prefer) is to treat 3D exactly like analogies of 2D. Treat the Blast 3 as 3x3x3. Allow your blast to start from up to 1 square above your head (so your limited vertical range is 3 squares high, but you aren't going to hit ground level with that), down to the opposite end where you can look down a small cliff face and start it 1 square below you and extending up to 3 squares below you. And of course, the default would be starting it at a ground level, and the caster could decide if they want it to cover 2 squares up, 2 squares down, or 1 square up and down, if it's important to distinguish. Treat cover in 3D just as you would 2D.

This style might be more complicated to judge (the cover component mostly), but I think it fits in best with the existing mechanics, and provides protection from the most exploitation, without penalizing the caster much.

 

[Particle_Man]

That's not the point here.
Apparently custserv reckons infinitely high blasts is how the game officially works.

Well I prefer the word "indefinitely" high. As in "as high as it needs to be to hit the flying opponent you want to hit". That does not require that it also be "infinitely" high, as a given opponent will not be infinitely high. So if a flyer is 60' high and you want to hit the flyer, then your burst is 65' high.

Sorta like how the kobolds always have "one more javelin" to throw at the pcs (like in the old movie shootouts, where the shooters never seem to have to reload their guns).

But the martial exploits question is interesting, so I sent a follow up qu. to CustServ. We'll see what they say.

But if it were Xena, and someone said she hit a harpy flying 1000 feet overhead, you know, I would just believe it. Because it was Xena.