I could use a hand with Disguise Self

[DreamChaser]

Be a dire wolf, look like a cow.
Be a dire eagle, look like a crow.
Be a baboon, look vaguly humanoid.
and its not far off : Be a red dragon, look like a gold dragon.

You don't even have to study these carefully. It is a simple spot check to gete past the disguise and I would give at least a +2 circumstance bonus (DM prerogotive bonus) based on the fact that the druid is clearly not thinking this through.

Crows and eagles fly differenly--eagles, like most large birds of prey, can soar while crows must flap more often. Crows fly in murders while eagles tend to be solitary or pairs. The size difference between a dire crow and a dire eagle (or even worse a dire eagle and a normal crow) is so extreme that I would probably make the bonus +4.

Wolves and cows don't walk even remotely the same. Any hick farmer would be able to think "why is that cow loping toward us?" Not to mention anyone with even a touch of wilderness survival skill. +4 bonus again.

Baboon and humanoids: this is the same problem unless you choose something that drags its knuckles when it walks anyone is going to be suspicious of the strange, shambling, dwarf.

The dragon thing would actually work better but what the heck would be the point? Either one is impressive and anyone powerful enough to be in a position to negotiate with a dragon would be able to see through the disguise without even trying.

DC

 

[Grogtar]

Okay. I think I understand but I have a clarification question.

Is the disguise self spell a magical disguise, or is it a magical way to make a better disguise ? Im not sure thats clear, but what I am trying to get at is that if somone is wearing a disguise you get a spot check (maybe a secret one) to detect it.

If its a Magical Disguise then the magic of it is that it looks perfect. You can look however you want, and it looks just right.

If its just a simple disguise, spot checks disarm it 100%.

 

[DreamChaser]

Okay. I think I understand but I have a clarification question.

Is the disguise self spell a magical disguise, or is it a magical way to make a better disguise ? Im not sure thats clear, but what I am trying to get at is that if somone is wearing a disguise you get a spot check (maybe a secret one) to detect it.

If its a Magical Disguise then the magic of it is that it looks perfect. You can look however you want, and it looks just right.

If its just a simple disguise, spot checks disarm it 100%.

You are creating a false distinction.

Disguise self is a spell that makes you look like how you want. But you still need to pull it off. Thus, any disguise, regardless of source (even a changeling from Eberron) can be thwarted with a Spot check.

Appearance is not everything. The spell even notes that it does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the form. In fact, the disguise skill could be used to create "perfect" disguise but the person wearing the disguise still needs to pull it off (which is why Disguise is a Charisma skill).

Hope this helps.

DC

 

[domino]

Looking at the chart for Disguse Self, we see that it allows you to change "minor details, gender, race, and age category."

NOT appear as a completely different animal. I would say that changing from a wolf to a cow is too radical of a change, and would be akin to changing from a human to an ogre, and unallowed.

Also, it only allows you to chance your size within one foot either way. NOT close enough for a dire eagle to appear like a crow. The size is just to different.

 

[Someone]

Be a dire wolf, look like a cow.

A cow with a hat

Be a dire eagle, look like a crow.

A REALLY BIG crow with a hat

Be a baboon, look vaguly humanoid.

A vaguely humanoid thing with a hat

and its not far off : Be a red dragon, look like a gold dragon.

A gold dragon with a hat

Short of patting everyone I meet down (physical interaction) is there a way around this seemingly INCREDIBLE first level spell ?

No, you only have to pat everyone with a hat, or other headgear.

Also, by the SRD "a character faced with proof that the illusion isn´t real needs no saving throw". Depends on the DM , but a cow that runs and bites like a dire wolf is proof that it isn´t a cow, and so on. It has been mentioned early, but the spell gives just a bonus to Disguise. At medium-high levels it won´t be enough to fool characters with good Spot scores, unless the one using the hat spent also ranks in disguise.

 

[Grogtar]

Ah, if only it were that simple. Its not just a hat - it could be a comb, or a bow or (as my GM interpreted it) any piece of somting on your head. The eagle has a small twig in its head feathers.

 

[Jack Simth]

The eagle has a small twig in its head feathers.

Dead giveaway, if you spot it - no self-respecting Eagle would be lax in it's grooming.

 

[Someone]

Ah, if only it were that simple. Its not just a hat - it could be a comb, or a bow or (as my GM interpreted it) any piece of somting on your head. The eagle has a small twig in its head feathers.

I think that´s just stretching it. Why not a microscopic twig, then?

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

The eagle has a small twig in its head feathers.

Ahh, the fine art of stretching the rules to the breaking point.