I could use a helping hand for my Avenger

[marelion]

Hi, Folks,

I`ve been running my Avenger for 2 months now and while he is a blast to play from a roleplaying perspective, mechanically he feels more like a paper-tiger than like a striker.

A couple of notes on the campaign I am in:

- no Dragon-Magazin stuff allowed, only written sources need apply
- no custom-items available for buying, only plain +x-items for sale
- our DM loves creatures with damage-negating abilities and usually employs Solos at least 3 levels higher than the PCs
- encounters feature a lot of difficult/hazardous terrain to keep melees from whacking at squishy monsters
- lots of monsters with immobilizing powers
-my character used to be a cleric, hence the multiclas feat slot is blocked with cleric
-Heal is absolutely neccesary, since I have all the rituals fromm the time when I used to be the party`s leader
-encounters usually take 7-8 rounds on average

My character in his current state has excellent utility powers and is highly mobile with his Fly speed. His defenses are quite good as well but he is definetely lacking some options in the hurts-department. I am truly not much of an optimizer, but if the other striker in the party deals 50% more damage there must be something I am doing wrong.


I`ve attached my character sheet as a pdf, so you can get a look at the status quo and tell me where I messed up and what I should do better

 

[Infiniti2000]

I think it's fine. The point you may be missing is that your lower damage per attack is more than made up for by the two rolls on the attack the higher the average damage. It equals out at about double the value of the difference between the average damages. Thus, if you deal an average damage of 5 less than another class, then at an average damage of about 10, you'll do the same amount of damage considering you get two rolls.

 

[marelion]

Thus, if you deal an average damage of 5 less than another class, then at an average damage of about 10, you'll do the same amount of damage considering you get two rolls.

Thank you for your reply, but I am afraid I will have to correct you. Stochastic is a complicated field and doubling the number doesn`t do the trick to simulate rolling twice. Rolling twice won`t double the damage I deliver due to repeated attacks but rather up my additional damage by ~80%. Thbat`s only 20% less damage but these 20% are what I lack. See my explanations below.

I´ve just done the maths asuming the following circumstances:

-1o rounds of combat using at-will powers
- 1/encounter (i.e. every 10 rounds) the enemy will willingly move away from me and trigger my Censure
-the rogue has CA 90% of the time(drow rogue, so yes, this is realistic)
-I will crit 1/encounter, while he will crit every 2 encounters

After resolving the maths I am at 21,95 damage per round while our rogue will deliver 33,3 damage per round. So he is rougly delivering 1/3 more damage per round.

I would be okay with that but unfortunately for me things only get worse from here on:

He has the Spider Assasin PP, which lets him deal an additional d8 of damage when he is hiden from his target, Merciless Killer for +5 damage vs bloodied targets and some gauntlets that give him another +4 damage vs bloodied targets. And he has Bloodthirst as well, since the aforementioned bonusses all stack with that.

And let`s please forget what will happen at epic: 2d8 SA, 1d6/1d8 (short sword/x-bow) and Light Blade/X-bow Mastery for him vs 2 points more Censure damage for me and another d12 for me Guess, epic level scaling is not on my side

I am basically looking for some advice as how to get the two ends of the damage divide a little closer. I understand that i will not be able to close the gap completely but that`s totally alright because i have better defenses, more HP/Surges and a lot more mobility to make up for that. I am trying not to sound like a whiny little child but you see the maths and get my drift, right?

 

[Neonchameleon]

What do you mean "No custom items available"?

The obvious item you are missing is Iron Armbands of Power - a static damage add (+4 at paragon) with Gauntlets of Blood also helping. Ideally for an Avenger you'd trade in your flaming weapon for a jagged one (crits on a 19-20 really help when you roll twice). Or if you want a flaming sword, take the rare one from Mordaniken's Magnificent Emporium (I forget its name).

Feats: Power of Skill would give you an At Will charge attack. And a MBA for anyone who tried to escape (see below for why this is important). There's also a specalist avenger feat that gives you bonus necrotic and radiant damage equal to your wis modifier - but this may be Dragon.

There's two pretty big damage adds you haven't added in.

The first is that you should be able to mangle the enemy artillery or controllers with your mobility. Artillery tends to have brute level AC and low hit points. But that's not all. Artillery in melee does 25% below baseline damage, whereas artillery at range does 25% above baseline damage. Which means they can either lose 40% of their damage output (and normally their riders) or they can try and get away (and trigger your censure) - lose/lose. A melee rogue will be very exposed against backliners, whereas a ranged one can't target them through the frontliners.

Your second is the difference in dpr between encounter powers. A [3W] encounter power for a rogue does 3d6 damage. A [3W] encounter power for you does 3d12 damage; the rogues don't generally do much more damage on encounter powers than on at wills.

That said, avengers are known to be slightly weak strikers. (And rangers are incredibly strong ones).

 

[mneme]

You need more static bonuses.

The GM's insistence on no Dragon content means you lose out on Painful Oath -- which was intended to be a fix to Paragon Avenger damage.

Beyond that, I'd try to work with the GM to get more damage bonuses to even things out -- if you could get your hands on a radiant kit, for instance (radiant weapon, dragonshard) it would help you out a lot.

Also, one place Avengers excel is with burst damage. If you had Fury's Advance (alas, Soulforge Hammering is out of bounds; that's a great one since it includes a static damage boost and a multi-attack), you'd be able to stick one more swordblow in when you had a momentary advantage or an enemy was incredibly close to death, with lethal accuracy.

 

[Vadriar]

Get him to unban Dragon.

I used to be like him. I banned dragon and didn't let my players buy items I hadn't vetted. Encounters went slow.

However, Dragon is getting erratas and basically is a source of bug-fixes for the system. Some classes do not work as intended without Dragon powers. Painful Oath is an example of this.

If things are starting to get silly, he can still ask you to dial it back and offer a free retrain out of the offending item/power/feat. But a blanket ban on a source of bug fixes is very shortsighted. And I say that as someone who has done it himself.

If your DM feels he wants more of a challenge for you, his best bet would be to increase damage. If he hasn't applied MM3 damage rules, he should do so.

Giving people what they want to make their character fun and making it fun for the DM by increasing damage is making the game fun for everyone.

 

[marelion]

Thanks for all the feedback, folks!

[MENTION=87792]Neonchameleon[/MENTION]: Power of Skill would help a lot, a MBA which can slide can be worth its feat price in gold, especially when combined with Censure`s Grip and Deadly Draw.

What I meant when I said no custom items was that we can only buy plain weapons, implements, amulets and armors with +x but without properties. So no Iron Armbands of Power for me Unless my DM dedceided to drop them, that is.

My DMs is convinced that my better defenses (in comparison to the rogue) compensate for the lack of damage, totally ignoring that an average 1,5 to defense does not help a bit if you need 3-4 more turns to take down the opponent who is beating at you. In my experience, monsters just try to whack at me in melee rather than make the effort to get away.

When our DM employs artillery or controllers these are usually elites, so they often have ways to get away by teleporting or avoid punishment using close attacks. In those few cases when he empleyed non-elite controllers/artillery I made short work of them in no time, so yeah, my strikeryness goes skyrocket-up when an encounter plays to my strenghts and I get to pick off the back-liners.

Thanks a bunch for your help, guys!

 

[Grabuto138]

Under these circumstances I would consider talking to your DM and explaining that his rules limitations are making your character less fun to play:

"We should discuss how to make my character more fun, or we should discuss my new character."

It is a hobby, not a job. He may have good reasons for his limitations. Or he may not. But your fun is equally important and he can make exceptions easily.