I don't know what just happend, but it seems that Ayn Rand corrupted my player!

[ExploderWizard]

This subject made me think of something that I hadn't thought about in a while. It seems to me that over the years, the attitudes of the characters and (some of) the players have undergone a reversal of sorts.

Back in the day, when XP for GP was the standard of play, the characters were more selfish, mercenary sword & sorcery types. Aquiring more personal wealth and power at any expense was encouraged and expected.

The players (at least the majority of the ones I had contact with) were more laid back, less ego focused, and generally less selfish in attitude than the average player we hear from regularly these days.

Todays games are filled with larger than life heroic characters, super do-gooders who face impossible odds for alruistic reasons simply because they are heroes.

The players OTOH seem to be getting extremely selfish and ego focused. The "all about me, all the time" focus has become so popular it is being written into game mechanics. At the current rate of progression the average player will be so full of themselves that there will only be room for one such ego at the table. Not that such a self obsessed personality will notice the absence of other people or anything.

 

[Desdichado]

This subject made me think of something that I hadn't thought about in a while. It seems to me that over the years, the attitudes of the characters and (some of) the players have undergone a reversal of sorts.

Back in the day, when XP for GP was the standard of play, the characters were more selfish, mercenary sword & sorcery types. Aquiring more personal wealth and power at any expense was encouraged and expected.

The players (at least the majority of the ones I had contact with) were more laid back, less ego focused, and generally less selfish in attitude than the average player we hear from regularly these days.

Todays games are filled with larger than life heroic characters, super do-gooders who face impossible odds for alruistic reasons simply because they are heroes.

The players OTOH seem to be getting extremely selfish and ego focused. The "all about me, all the time" focus has become so popular it is being written into game mechanics. At the current rate of progression the average player will be so full of themselves that there will only be room for one such ego at the table. Not that such a self obsessed personality will notice the absence of other people or anything.

Holy rose-colored glasses combined with "You kids get off my lawn," Batman.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Man, if there were no XP limits, DannyAlcatraz would get so many more from me!

XP'd him for you.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Holy rose-colored glasses combined with "You kids get off my lawn," Batman.

It isn't all about age. I have seen suprisingly mature teens that were a joy to game with as well as a few older adults that I would rather have off my lawn.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Holy rose-colored glasses combined with "You kids get off my lawn," Batman.

I'd XP you for that reply, but I need to spread it around more first.

I agree - back in 1E days, it was all about acquiring treasure and who had the best sword, best magic items and most gold.

I've found most players of 3E/4E almost universally seem to do what is best for the party/campaign. I think it's just that we're all older & more mature now... well, older at least.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

The players are not customers. As Umbran said, customers don't participate in shaping the product (with some exceptions).

How about this analogy:
The DM is a host, throwing a party. The players are guests.

It is up to all to ensure that a good time is had, though the work, responsibility, and such are primarily that of the DM/host. The DM also sets the constraints of the party. If a costume party, guests should show up in costumes. If a cheese and wine party, teetotaler lactose intolerant players should choose not to come, to bring their own food, or simply come without partaking, and do so without complaint.

Can a DM host be a bad host? Sure. But it's hardly the guest's prerogative to tell the host what kind of party he should throw.

 

[Desdichado]

It isn't all about age. I have seen suprisingly mature teens that were a joy to game with as well as a few older adults that I would rather have off my lawn.

You're right. I have no idea how old you are. But your attitude is that of a grumpy old guy who still remembers when FDR was president.

My experience is very much the opposite of yours. In the "good" old days, players were all out for themselves and had a bunch of attitude. Nowadays, without incentives being hard-coded into the game to act like jackholes, most players have gotten much more relaxed and laid-back, and now feel free to game for fun.

Now, if you want to talk about other aspects of our society, I'd be quick to join you in shaking my cane at the mamby-pampy entitlement, whiny kids of today. Just not here on ENWorld. And that certainly doesn't describe my experience with gaming. Frankly, it comes across as a passive aggressive swipe at folks who like different editions than you. I could be reading that wrong, but that's very much the vibe you're giving off right now.

 

[MoxieFu]

DM authoritarianism is equally as entitled. People in glass houses.

So players should feel that they are equal to the DM in the authorship of the campaign?



EDIT to add: sorry to post such a stale and outdated response. I got stirred up and jumped the gun, didn't see that there were pages of other responses first. I'll go now and take the appropriate meds.

 

[Umbran]

You might want to reconsider who's showing signs of lack of social skills here.

EVERYONE might want to reconsider how personal they are making some of this discussion.

Address the points of reasoning, not the person of the speaker, please.

 

[enrious]

IMO, discussions about how players were "in the old days" vs. how they are now miss two important things.

First, you can't pigeonhole the majority of players or even large segments based upon your own games nor even from letters written into popular publications - your experience (unless you are extremely extraordinary) is limited.

As is mine.

Secondly, the only thing that matters is the group you game with. My current group, for example, were given Ptolus as a sandbox and some evil, naughty memories of their character's past. So they turned it into GTA meets the Usual Suspects with some terror-bombing.

That same group also played in a Silver Age supers game where I told them from the outset that there would be no xp/character advancement nor wealth, and they rocked it.

I find it hard to believe that people were *all* that different 30 years ago. Inflexible. Unable to realize that basically you're sitting around with friends and people you want to be around rolling odd-shaped dice only because you don't want to sit around with friends and people you want to be around playing Poker.

As it is, anyone hiding behind Rand's skirts to justify anything is just begging for an existential awakening.