• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

I don't want to be a druid/cleric, I want to be a fighter.

Since I'm playing a fighter in a high level Pathfinder campaign, I'll have to say "stick to my vision!" I'm having fun RPing the character and he does good damage in combat, but he's got next to nothing to contribute outside of combat. "What, a 50 foot, bottomless chasm? Sorry, I need the druid's animal companion to ferry me across." My combat turns take 1-2 minutes, depending on situational complexity. The two druids in our party take at least 15 minutes each with their spells/attacks, animal companions and summons. It truly is a godawful system at high levels.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

The flip side of the question is "why would you bother playing a melee cleric or druid when you could just play a fighter?"

It depends a lot on the group.

Some people will give you a really hard time if your character isn't perfectly optimized. Often, it doesn't even matter if they're right that a cleric would be better, just that it's the internet's opinion. I just don't play with those people, but not everyone has that luxury.

That said, it's worth checking in advance what other people want to play. If another person wants to play a melee cleric and you want to play a fighter, you should talk over how that'll work.

For my group, we have two PF games running (one up to 16th level and one just started). Neither fighter feels underpowered despite both groups having full divine casters.

Cheers!
Kinak
 

I know there's some contention on this at the paizo forums (especially with Pathfinder Unchained announced) but I still contend the PF Fighter, from experience, is a very powerful and versatile class for front line fighting. For 3e and 3.5, a bit less so, but i've never known a Sword and Board or great-weapon fighter to be useless compared to a "CoDzilla" on the front line.

Most important thing: if your DM is allowing the party to dictate the tone of fights and when they have them at all times, allowing the cleric or druid to "nova" or prepare only the specific spells for buffing that they use, then yes, the fighter will pale compared to a high level magic user who is prepped to be a front line warrior. However, spells run out. Righteous might and enlarge person and bull strength only last for rounds or minutes, not hours. Two or three fights in, they're spent or close to it -- or if it's a surprise fight it takes them two or three rounds to get that way. A fighter's feats usually have a casting time of a free action. ;)

A Fighter's Feats aren't remotely comparable to spells like Enlarge Person, Bull's Strength or Righteous Might, though, that's the problem. The latter in particular would be worth about a dozen Feats, were it a Feat. +4 STR/CON, weapons increase a category in size (massive damage increase in many cases), +2 AC, DR5/Evil. Any one of those bonuses would be considered wildly excessive for a Feat and "unbalanced" and so on.

I mean, as I alluded to upthread, actually, it wouldn't be. It would be fine to have Feats that gave +2 STR or the like if they were restricted strictly to full-class Fighters and so on, but the problem is, PF doesn't do that - the paths and the BAB restrictions and so on help, but if a Fighter can get an awesome Feat, so can a Cleric. A Fighter might get 3x more Feats (seems about that, I forget exactly how many), but that's not enough to make up for the issues.

Spells do indeed run out - but by level 10 or so, they don't run out for, as you seem to suggest, 2-3 encounters. 4 encounters/day is pretty much the maximum 3.XE/PF were designed to sustain. A Fighter can keep fighting beyond that, definitely (assuming Wands of CLW to keep him up and so on), but when the Cleric, the Wizard, the Druid and every other semi-caster and hybrid is out of spells, or low on spells, and only the Fighter can keep going meaningfully, it's going to take extreme circumstances for the party to go on.

Now, I don't mean to be down on the PF Fighter, but here's the thing - he's an upgrade from previous Fighters, but PF's Casters got upgrade, too. Spells saw some slight nerfs (as did save DCs), but overall, they lost a tiny bit of power and gained a ton of versatility. At lower levels, that's still not going to invalidate the Fighter's "WHOA THAT'S A LOT OF FEATS!" factor - up to 6/7 the Fighter may well still be the main dude to be feared - but once you get much past that, not even the PF Fighter can sustain things reliably. 10? Maybe he's still solid. 12? 14? Yeah...

Of course my experience is that most 3.XE campaigns peter out by around those levels, or even end, so if you're expecting that, then I think Fighter is absolutely fine.
 

My combat turns take 1-2 minutes, depending on situational complexity. The two druids in our party take at least 15 minutes each with their spells/attacks, animal companions and summons. It truly is a godawful system at high levels.
I think your observations point to it being more of a druid thing that a high-level thing. My experience definitely agrees with that.

One of our major table rules is "you're solely responsible for keeping your combat rounds a reasonable length." Which, in practice, means no eidolons/companions, no combat summoning, and people who add slowly use dicerolling programs.

The upside of that, and a few other tweaks, is that we can get through two small tactical combats (or one waved one) and a bunch of exploration/roleplay in two hours at 16th level.

Cheers!
Kinak
 



If my fighter isn't actually good at fighting then I'm not playing what I signed up to. Mechanics are how you realise parts of your character concept.

Yep. If a Fighter isn't really good at fighting, relative to the other characters in the game, then there is a problem. If the game claims he is the best at fighting, and he isn't, then there is a huuuuuge blimmin' problem.
 

Yep. If a Fighter isn't really good at fighting, relative to the other characters in the game, then there is a problem. If the game claims he is the best at fighting, and he isn't, then there is a huuuuuge blimmin' problem.

We had a new player make 7/1 fighter/rogue in the same game we had and person ed player make a 1/7 barbarian cleric guess who was better in every fight


When persistent spell got used it got game breaking... And did end the campaign
 
Last edited:


I play concept first. If the PC I create isn't purposefully sub-optimized for some reason, but I'm still not very useful to the group, I don't play that particular game any longer.
 

Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top