I finally watched Underworld

[reapersaurus]

Serge - good post - that's really the first post I can remember that contains any criticisms other than "It sucked" or "It SHOULD have done things the way I thought it should be done."

Even if someone has a diametrically opposing opinion, as long as they can back it up with more than just personal issues with a work (i.e. "it sucked hard"), than that's worth reading.

I chose not to resurrect the spoiler thread because I just wanted to bash the movie without getting into details so as not to spoil it for those who still wanted to see it. Are movie reviews of "It rocked" or "It sucked" no longer allowed?

What does "allowed" mean?
If you think that they are going to be yanked off the board by a Mod - no.

But most posters on ENWorld (especially in this Fantasy forum) (I hope) tend to look down on posts which contain nothing but "It sucked."
Posts like that are indicative more of the poster's inability to form a cohesive opinion and write intelligently, than of the piece he's critiquing.

If "It sucked" posts (especially to start a thread) were the norm here, we'd would be no better than IMDB's forums.

And just for conversation, I don't believe that spoilers are a consideration for a film that's already been released on home video/DVD.
I just don't buy that you started a new thread out of considerateness for people who would read an "I just saw Underworld" thread and not expect spoilers.

Is sarcasm still ok?

Sarcasm, on the other hand, is alive and well.

At least you actually detailed some of the things you didn't like about the film this time....

About those:
a) It is not realistically possible to have a werewolf/vampire movie where they actually fight using powers for under $20 million like this movie was made with.
People can SAY "it would have been better if they showed vampires busting out claws and teeth and super-powers, and have werewolves going all feral and , but let's be realistic (since we live in the real world): they couldn't make that film, so we got what we got - either you understand that as a realistic fantasy fan, or you don't.

To put Underworld up against some fantasy movie bar that doesn't exist (vampire/werewolf War movie that USES supernatural powers) is a tad .... pie-in-the-skyish to me.

b) I am really sick of people dismissing entire films (even ones in completely different genres) just because of superficial resemblances.
Underwolrd is almost nothing like the MAtrix.
If you'd like me to point out the myriad of details that are vastly different betwen the films, I could, but it would be a waste of time, and only telling people what they already know : there are only superficial similarities between the films, mainly with one lead character wearing black leather/latex and shooting guns, and a slow-mo action effect or 2.
Are people ever going to let go of that comparison?
20 years from now, when there's a slo-mo effect of a gun being fired, will people dismiss that movie because The MAtrix used it in 1999?
Wake up - it's part of the ouvre of action film conventions now.

c) Complaining about acting is a canard - everyone has completely different tastes there, and without explaining how/why it's bad, it means nothing.
If I say that I thought the acting was great across the board (excepting Kraven), does that adequately counter your "argument"?
If you detailed examples of what you saw as bad acting (excepting Kraven), I'd be all ears, and more respectful of an opinion based on something we can sink our teeth into in an internet discussion (pun intended).

d) I simply don't agree with your "focus on minor details, neglect major details" point. I never noticed the reflection detail taking center stage, and I grokked the major details when they chose to reveal them.
In fact, I thought it was quite admirable, effective, and refreshing the way they doled out the major plot details of Lucien's and Selene's backstorys.

e) I'll grant the point about the werewolves and vamps both using super-bullets in the final battle, yet them not showing them except for in Kraven's gun.
The movie's not perfect.

f) The werewolves were losing because up until that exact point of history in the war, they were at a technological disadvantage. It was established in the film (mnaybe you missed it) that the vamps had been already using silver bullets. Further, Selene herself narrated in the intro that they were being very successful ("too successful") at wiping out werewolves (using this method).
The film chose to take that section of the war to film - when technology brought the conflict to a head, and circumstances/plotting caused the centuries of machinations to come to fruition/resolution.

g) Yep - you have to accept that the werewolf force was strong enough IN A PLANNED AMBUSH YEARS IN THE MAKING to take out even an elder.... offscreen, yes.
[troll] I don't hear people complaining about Tolkein dealing with major plot elements offscreen...[/troll]

h) Ya, Selene bought the story Viktor told her.
There are myriad of reasons for this (human shock and need for explanation of tragedy, supernatural powers of Viktor convincing her, the long effect time has on the memory, immersion in a society making their beliefs more persuasive to the individual, etc, etc).
That's a weak complaint, and you can ask questions like that of almost every film where a character was wrong about something.

i) Complaining about names used in a vampire/werewolf gothic film is like complaining about names used in a Roman-period movie.
You obviously didn't buy into the whole concept of the film - why did you bother seeing it, if your complaints are this based on your inability to accept the premise/genre?

 

[Vocenoctum]

I just don't buy that you started a new thread out of considerateness for people who would read an "I just saw Underworld" thread and not expect spoilers.

It's his motive he's stating, so why do you doubt his word?

Myself, I hate when someone ressurects a long dead thread, especially one that's multipages. There's no reason the thread can't stand on it's own.

I thought Underworld looked "made for TV" in the commercials, so I'll see it when it comes out of cable myself. If the original poster likes the genre, but didn't like the movie, there's nothing *wrong* with that.

And, isn't your continual harping on the LotR stuff getting to the level of trolling? Didn't the thread run it's length?

 

[reapersaurus]

And, isn't your continual harping on the LotR stuff getting to the level of trolling?

It was a direct comparison of something that fantasy fans allow in one case, but don't in another.

And if I hadn't have pointed out it's potentiality as a 'troll' comment, it probably wouldn't be perceived as one. I just wanted to be honest and show how it could be perceived as one, but actually after looking at it again, I should have given myself the benefit of the doubt and not mentioned it, since it really is applicable in the comparison between works of fantasy.

oh - and he said himself that he wanted to start a new thread to bash the movie with no details.
Me concluding that he wasn't doing it out of a sense of considerateness is hardly jumping to a big conclusion.

 

[Henry]

Hi, Guys - let's try to be a little more civil, please. No need to bash one another over a movie.


------


I saw it myself, and thought it was good enough to entertain, but not to be memorable. Interestingly, my wife who is not a fan of sci-fi or fantasy, really enjoyed this movie - it told its story, it moved at a good pace and didn't bog down. For that it succeeded.

The three pat peeves for me:

-Terrible makeup job on the abomination at the end.
-Terrible wire work at the final fight - a big departure from the pretty good wire work and SFX at the beginning and middle.
-Ultra-violet and silver nitrate bullets? Huh. They looked more like silver chloride, because AgNO3 is not "gloppy" like that, and I still can't wrap my mind around a liquid that emits ultra-violet light.

Otherwise, Viktor came off as a true badass, Beckinsale played Celene as a pretty compelling character, and the guns and silver shuriken were some pretty neat ideas.

 

[TracerBullet42]

You're saying you've got a FEVER, and the only prescription is more COWBELL?!

Bruce Dickenson rules! (I think that was his name, right?)

Great sketch...

 

[DanMcS]

I liked the movie. The part that kept jumping out and kicking me in the shins, though, was the names. They NAMED the VILLAIN CRAVEN. They named the old mentor guy "Victor". Gag me with a spoon. I mean, seriously, how scary of a villain are you when your name is synonymous with "coward". I couldn't suppress a chuckle every time that character walked onscreen, it kept breaking the mood.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

When I saw the previews I thought, "Oh boy the Matrix with Vampires...ugh" Maybe I was wrong but I think they could have used a different ad approach or something. I had no desire to see it after watching a commercial for it.

And I didn't see it, and don't plan on it, so I can't add much to the debate about the quality of the flick.

 

[Ruined]

I enjoyed the movie and picked up the DVD for my roommate last week. One part I did want to chuckle about:

Raze, the african-american Lycan. His voice was the worst thing ever. I was convinced that they dubbed it over to achieve some effect and failed miserably. Then I watched the DVD extras. Turns out he's one of the co-writers of the film, and in his interview, he talks the same - like some wacked out Yoda puppet. Too weird.

 

[danzig138]

no redeeming qualities? Kate Beckinsale's posterior.
DISPROVED.

Probably not the best way to start off a post with the intention of disproving anything. Her butt doesn't disprove anything other than the idea that she has a good butt.

 

[barsoomcore]

Mrs. Barsoom and I liked it reasonably well in the theatre -- GREAT gun sounds (Mrs. Barsoom considers herself quite the connisseur of gun sounds), and hey, there's room in my entertainment for Kate Becksale's butt in black latex, I'm afraid. It's not porn, it's pretty.



The story is pretty thin and a lot of the beats are just missed or don't make a lot of sense -- why does dropping through a hole in the floor make werewolves lose track of you? How come Lucian can run after a car and catch up with it the first time but the second time he just says, "Ah, heck," and turns away? What happened to those silver nitrate bullets? How did the vampires stay on top of the werewolves all these years?

And why oh why did our, er, hero, just sort of gently BOUNCE off the pillar when Victor hurls him through the air?

Some of the wirework was very good, I thought. I thought Kate sold her moves with real acting and the guy playing Victor was very good as well. I'm glad they didn't overplay the emotion between the two leads -- no cheesy sex scene, hurrah!

We watched it on DVD and it didn't hold up very well, however. A few good bits but overall a very flawed film.

Still, worth a check if you like fight scenes -- there were some clever bits in there. Not enough shots of Kate's posterior, however.