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Message: <blockquote data-quote="chilibean" data-source="post: 27809" data-attributes="member: 2220">I agree with most of Grover's arguments, however, it makes the combat system inconsistent, and that is my biggest complaint with giving the ignored attacker any bonus greater than an invisible opponent gets.Requiring a concentration check sounds reasonable until you see that concentration is not a fighter class skill.  Your whole check system could be immensely simplified by simply making it an opposed base attack check.  If you loose, you can't ignore AND the opponent you are trying to ignore is still counted as invisible to you.  So there is a risk of giving up something without gaining anything.  Sounds reasonable to me.IMO, fantasy role playing does NOT have to conform to reality.  However, is SHOULD be internally consistent whenever possible.  No one here has given a single logical (to me anyway) reason why a opponent you simply choose not to look at would be more powerful than an opponent you didn't know was there and is invisible.  Many of these bonuses people are talking about seem very justified in many cases.  HOWEVER, if you're going to do that, then you make it senseless with respect to invisibility.  But giving invisiblity all the benefits mentioned is unbalancing.So you either:1) live with the inconsistency (which is extremely irritating and seemingly unnecessary to me) and give unwatched opponents uber bonuses that no one else ever gets, or you2) increase the bonus to invisible people (unbalancing), or you 3) give the unwatched opponent the benefits of being invisible, or you4) force everyone to take the flank penalty no matter what goofy situation comes up, or you5) force everyone to take the flank penalty except when the DM allows otherwise.Choosing option 1 seems to me worse than the by the book answer of 4.  5 is also by the book, since DM's are able to do anything, but would be extremely irritating unless the DM is perfectly consistent in his rulings.To me, the nicest, cleanest, and simplest way to fix the problem is option 3.Personnaly, I really like the idea of adding a check to see if the person you don't want to watch didn't distract you anyway.  An opposed BAB roll, with the ignored guy getting a bonus of plus how many ever points of damage he did to you last round.That way you can try to ignore and fail.  I like it a lot.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />So go ahead and try to ignore the fighter while you pummel the rogue.  Unless you're a lot better than him, you're just doing him a favor!</blockquote>

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