I hate reach and attacks of opportunity (old thread)

[Patman21967]

One of my players is a Half-Dragon/Minotaur. I normally would not allow this, but there is a campaign reason, and he did take all the minuses to start. I have grown to hate letting him play a Large creature. He uses a heavy flail, and has reach, so I have 2 options. He either gets his damn attacks of opportunity, or I take him out with a spellcaster, and the rest of the party gets mashed. Perhaps some of you, really good on tactics, could give me an idea on how to engage him, without him crushing opponents before they get to him. I know moblity helps. I am at work an have not consulted the book yet, but are there feats that allow people to avoid his AoO's....I hate the way this game is so tactically arranged. I do not like the AoO rules at all...just my opinion....

Thanks
Pat

 

[Ibram]

Ogers with class levels.

NPC's with ranks in tumble

NPC's with reach weapons.

remember that 5 foot steps dont usualy provoke AoO's

archers.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Well, I totally disagree on AoOs; they're one of my favorite elements of 3e.

As to your problem, I can think of four simple solutions.

Number one, opponents with high mobility and AC boosting abilities can get in range without suffering attacks of opportunity. A half-dragon minotaur is cool and strong, but a ninja will flip out and kill him ALL THE TIME. Okay, not an actual ninja from Complete Adventurer, probably, but a rogue geared up to take down the big fella.

Number two, opponents with high hit points and perhaps damage reduction can take a licking and keep on ticking. I'm thinking primarily of any opponent who has the word Dwarven in front of his prestige class name. Indeed, most opponents shouldn't be dying to a single attack of opportunity.

Number three, opponents with reach. This one's pretty simple. A storm giant. An ogre with a longspear. Anything Gargantuan or larger. These guys can hit him before he can hit them. Any large creature, or ANY creature with a reach weapon, can hit him at the same time he can hit them.

Number four, great buckets of baddies! Unless he's the world's most dexterous half-dragon/minotaur, the fourth or fifth goblin will get through unscathed. If you're really frustrated, use the rules for fighting multiple opponents from Mongoose's Conan (each opponent after the first adds +2 in addition to flanking).

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

The usual ways to avoid an AoO:

- Tumble
- Spring Attack
- swarming him (so he doesn't have enough AoO's to get everyone)
- use reach weapons
- use ranged weapons
- use 5' steps + total defense
- catch the character flat-footed
- teleport next to the character

Of course, the character probably has taken Combat Reflexes, and thus can make a few AoO's a round, and while flat-footed.

I don't know about other special feats that might let someone avoid potential AoO's.

AR

 

[painandgreed]

Missle weapons and long spears. Mixed. Defending each other. Or just use hit and run tactics with missle weapons. 20 kobolds appear and fire missle weapons then scatter in different directions into the forrest. Each party is only able to chase after one creature and that's if they split up in the middle of a hostile forest. Once they give chase. 20 other kobolds appear on the other side or at the top of a 20' cliff and do the same thing.

If you really wanbt to be cruel, 5' (or smaller) corridors. Let him try to squeeze everywhere in the dungeon. Once the kobolds fire their missle weapons they scatter off into the woods and then disappear down 3' tunnels that go all over the valley.

 

[FireLance]

Command: drop (Clr 1). Will save or drop weapon. My 1st-level party used it to great effect during last weekend's game on an ogre with a greatclub.

 

[Henry]

The NPCs are going to deal with him the same way that PCs would deal with an Ogre: They've going to attack him with ranged weapons, use tumble, spring attacks, etc. The other solution would be to ret-con (with the player's agreement) that the character is only medium size.

I don't mean this to sound offensive, but the complaint sounds like a policeman who is upset because he told the motorist that speeding was allowed. Even that said, it's not an insurmountable change - it just takes planning on the part of the enemy to challenge him. However, the enemy will know of him, depending on his popularity, and will plan accordingly.

 

[Glyfair]

Don't forget the swarm option. Even if he has Combat Reflexes, there are only so many AoO he can make in a round. Especially if the swarm has abilities that help them work together.

 

[monboesen]

I have to ask if you did remember that a Minotaur halfdragon even without class levels is a 6 HD creature with a +5 ECL, equalling a 11th level character.

Its hard to see how he would dominate the game compared to other 11th level characters. He will of course have great strength (+16) and con (+8). Thats +8 to hit and damage and +4 hp/hd.

At -5 levels and size large he shouldn't hit that much better than a 11th level fightertype and HP should be about the same. He has 3 feats total, compared with the possible 10 a fighter would have.

Skills and Saves must suck big time, so any situation that involves those will be a pain for the player.

That said no matter the in game reasons its rarely a good idea to
a) Allow anything with a ECL greater than +1-2
b) Allowing anything that has a +16 str bonus

Its just very hard to predict the consequences such characters will have on your game. As the DM you a fully entitled to tell the player that the character is to difficult to handle for you and that you would prefer it to be replaced.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Removing AoO from the game is quite possible, and can be done with no detriment to D&D (Back in House Rules I give details of one way of doing it).

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=99029

However, it is a major change to make to the game and I certainly wouldn't advise it on the basis of bad experience with one current PC. I feel sure that the other examples already listed here will allow you to rein in his impact in a perfectly reasonable and legitimate way.

Cheers