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D&D Older Editions
I have seen the coming of 4e...
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<blockquote data-quote="qstor" data-source="post: 4082183" data-attributes="member: 1489"><p>And it's a computer game.</p><p></p><p>I was at DDXP. I ran some Living Greyhawk games and I played one of the previews and the delve. I played Escape from Sembia. This is kinda quick but here's a few of my thoughts.</p><p></p><p>I'll try to be balanced but overall I disliked the game because of the way it played. One of my friends said I was determined not to like it. I was open to it so I played it. I was big into Living Greyhawk and Living Kalamar and the RPGA since 2000. I also play Shadowrun, HERO system or have played them and will play them in the future. I've played Rifts too.</p><p></p><p>I disliked not having the gnome, the bard and the druid in the PHB. I wasn't happy about that. Having played the previews I do think the remarks about it playing like a computer game are true. Thus the flashly intro at the top.</p><p></p><p>One of the abilities or powers was ability to automatically heal yourself hit points during a round/encounter. which I REALLY disliked. I can't see why that ended to be ADDED. Game balance NO IMHO. I can't think of another game system off the top of my head where that automatically happens.</p><p></p><p>Over all I feel exactly as JeffB put it in a closed thread</p><p>"It seems to me that the 3E and 4E design teams are just people who never much cared for the original games , the kids I used to play with who had to have 25 pages of house rules and whose tastes differed from the intent/spirit of those early versions. They (WOTC) have remade it to appeal to the younger generation and different style of gamer than I am, and they will do well with it."</p><p></p><p>Why I feel this is as a result of my 4e play experience...Rangers (perhaps my favorite class since 1e) are no longer the only class that can automatically track. Track feat has been done away with. Clerics can no longer destroy undead (From what I understand) Nor can they turn undead multiple times per encounter. Some other players were glad of this. Game balance? IMHO no. It's part of the game. The designers didn't think that it needed to be included. I'm sure they think its because of game balance. I doubt it. Skeletons don't have DR against arrows. That doesn't make since. Clerics don't cast spells. They have prayers. Hmmm...name change? Why? I guess players of wizards got confused why clerics cast "spells". The powers abilities don't seem like feats or class abilities. They are powers. That seems like a computer game to me. History of the game another example. Magic missile doesn't automatically hit. Come ON..game balance issue...NO...not when at 9th level in 3e the damage caps even with empowered and maximized magic missiles. The automatically hitting is part of the game history.</p><p></p><p>I guess to work at wizards in 2005 when "Orcus" or 4e was being worked on Bill Slavicsek said gee people who hates 1e lets make a game where we can get kids off of WOW and into D&D....why it's called D&D I don't know....</p><p></p><p><span style="color: red"><em>Quote removed. Mike, please don't take quotes from closed threads and repeat them out of context. Not only are threads closed for a reason, you took one of my quotes that applied to a specific question, and stated it as if I was referring to 4e. I wasn't, so that wasn't the case. ~ Piratecat</em></span></p><p></p><p>true IMHO to an extent...if it gets kids to replace 35-40 yo grognards I guess it's worth the marketing campagin.</p><p></p><p>The rah rah go 4e climate at DDXP left a cold feeling in my gutt...When 3e came out in 2000, I embraced the new system and loved the changes to D&D. I saw how rolling a d20 and adding skills and to hits made the game simpler and how 3e is/was part of OD&D, 1e and 2e...and how it improved D&D</p><p>4e perhaps is too radical for me. It seems like the red boxed set I got as a kid isn't anything more, instead I can take my 25th level fighter in 4e kill a red dragon and heal myself without a cleric. Maybe I'll jump into a lava pit since as one of the players at the table said to me. NOTHING is automatic anymore and my poor magic missile might miss.</p><p></p><p>Castles and Crusades anyone?</p><p></p><p>Mike</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="qstor, post: 4082183, member: 1489"] And it's a computer game. I was at DDXP. I ran some Living Greyhawk games and I played one of the previews and the delve. I played Escape from Sembia. This is kinda quick but here's a few of my thoughts. I'll try to be balanced but overall I disliked the game because of the way it played. One of my friends said I was determined not to like it. I was open to it so I played it. I was big into Living Greyhawk and Living Kalamar and the RPGA since 2000. I also play Shadowrun, HERO system or have played them and will play them in the future. I've played Rifts too. I disliked not having the gnome, the bard and the druid in the PHB. I wasn't happy about that. Having played the previews I do think the remarks about it playing like a computer game are true. Thus the flashly intro at the top. One of the abilities or powers was ability to automatically heal yourself hit points during a round/encounter. which I REALLY disliked. I can't see why that ended to be ADDED. Game balance NO IMHO. I can't think of another game system off the top of my head where that automatically happens. Over all I feel exactly as JeffB put it in a closed thread "It seems to me that the 3E and 4E design teams are just people who never much cared for the original games , the kids I used to play with who had to have 25 pages of house rules and whose tastes differed from the intent/spirit of those early versions. They (WOTC) have remade it to appeal to the younger generation and different style of gamer than I am, and they will do well with it." Why I feel this is as a result of my 4e play experience...Rangers (perhaps my favorite class since 1e) are no longer the only class that can automatically track. Track feat has been done away with. Clerics can no longer destroy undead (From what I understand) Nor can they turn undead multiple times per encounter. Some other players were glad of this. Game balance? IMHO no. It's part of the game. The designers didn't think that it needed to be included. I'm sure they think its because of game balance. I doubt it. Skeletons don't have DR against arrows. That doesn't make since. Clerics don't cast spells. They have prayers. Hmmm...name change? Why? I guess players of wizards got confused why clerics cast "spells". The powers abilities don't seem like feats or class abilities. They are powers. That seems like a computer game to me. History of the game another example. Magic missile doesn't automatically hit. Come ON..game balance issue...NO...not when at 9th level in 3e the damage caps even with empowered and maximized magic missiles. The automatically hitting is part of the game history. I guess to work at wizards in 2005 when "Orcus" or 4e was being worked on Bill Slavicsek said gee people who hates 1e lets make a game where we can get kids off of WOW and into D&D....why it's called D&D I don't know.... [color=red][i]Quote removed. Mike, please don't take quotes from closed threads and repeat them out of context. Not only are threads closed for a reason, you took one of my quotes that applied to a specific question, and stated it as if I was referring to 4e. I wasn't, so that wasn't the case. ~ Piratecat[/i][/color] true IMHO to an extent...if it gets kids to replace 35-40 yo grognards I guess it's worth the marketing campagin. The rah rah go 4e climate at DDXP left a cold feeling in my gutt...When 3e came out in 2000, I embraced the new system and loved the changes to D&D. I saw how rolling a d20 and adding skills and to hits made the game simpler and how 3e is/was part of OD&D, 1e and 2e...and how it improved D&D 4e perhaps is too radical for me. It seems like the red boxed set I got as a kid isn't anything more, instead I can take my 25th level fighter in 4e kill a red dragon and heal myself without a cleric. Maybe I'll jump into a lava pit since as one of the players at the table said to me. NOTHING is automatic anymore and my poor magic missile might miss. Castles and Crusades anyone? Mike [/QUOTE]
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