D&D 5E I have something... THE TARRASQUE!

[Alessandro Guarita]

True, although I wonder why does the Tarrasque needs eyes at all if it has Blindsight

Because the Blindsight is limited to 120 feet radius and the eyes will give normal vision beyond that

 

[Michael Morris]

And I share Saelorn's dislike for the "special snowflake" legendary status. Its another unnecessary gameist attribute.

Please work on your comprehension of terms before using them. A "gameist rule" is one that defies reality for game reasons, especially in a way that breaks the player's sense of disbelief. The best example is 4e's cube shaped fireball spells.

Turn structure is a game structure to begin with. Allowing a creature to act on other creature's turns shouldn't affect any rational person's sense of narrative.

 

[Umbran]

You know, I think dodging can really deflate the power of a lot of these scenarios where RAW might allow a groop of mooks to take down a goliath.

Plus, it gives you the image of this giant beast just kind of dancing around in among the rain of Sacred Flames... like Gene Kelly...

[video=youtube_share;D1ZYhVpdXbQ]http://youtu.be/D1ZYhVpdXbQ[/video]

And flinging cows, of course. Singing in the rain and flinging cows

 

[Savage Wombat]

Better mooooooooove out of the way! He's going to milk that strength for all its worth.

How appropriate. You fight like a dairy farmer.

 

[Derren]

Turn structure is a game structure to begin with. Allowing a creature to act on other creature's turns shouldn't affect any rational person's sense of narrative.

If the players see combat just as tactical tabletop, disconnected from the rest of the game world, you are correct. But if they do not they might ask questions like why can legendary creatures move faster when there are more enemies around them (to a limit)? Or why can they move and act so fast at all when they are, without enemies around, rather slow and ponderous? Why can the Sphinx only teleport when enemies are around but not when it is alone?

Lets take the magic carpet tactic I proposed.
When a single guy on a magic carpet attacks the Tarrasque in the middle of nowhere, it can move 100 ft per round. If there are two persons on the carpet, one for flying and one for throwing, the Tarrasque moves 120ft. And if you can get two throwers on the magic carpet, the Tarrasque moves 140ft.

 

[Michael Morris]

If the players see combat just as tactical tabletop, disconnected from the rest of the game world, you are correct. But if they do not they might ask questions like why can legendary creatures move faster when there are more enemies around them (to a limit)? Or why can they move and act so fast at all when they are, without enemies around, rather slow and ponderous?

This shorthand to create an exciting and engaging game and is no worse than turn based structure. The only alternative is cost the various actions in the style of weapon speeds and casting times. I'm considering doing such a writeup for 5e, but with the major caveat that initiative would then be tracked using a computer program. Using a tablet, you tell the computer what you did, then it tells you when your turn comes up again. Asking humans to do such calculations would be laborious though.

You can nitpick at any game rule to decry its realism. The derogatory term "gameist" should be reserved for rules so blatantly unrealistic that their entire reason for existing lies in the rules. Cube shaped fireballs is a great example of this. Creatures getting extra turns to keep a boss fight interesting is not. There's a huge gulf between the latter, which I'll concede is in a gray area, and the former, which is clearly in the wrong.

So learn what the term means. Also realize it is a derogatory term as likely to start edition war fights as not, and should be avoided.

 

[occam]

If the players see combat just as tactical tabletop, disconnected from the rest of the game world, you are correct. But if they do not they might ask questions like why can legendary creatures move faster when there are more enemies around them (to a limit)? Or why can they move and act so fast at all when they are, without enemies around, rather slow and ponderous? Why can the Sphinx only teleport when enemies are around but not when it is alone?

Lets take the magic carpet tactic I proposed.
When a single guy on a magic carpet attacks the Tarrasque in the middle of nowhere, it can move 100 ft per round. If there are two persons on the carpet, one for flying and one for throwing, the Tarrasque moves 120ft. And if you can get two throwers on the magic carpet, the Tarrasque moves 140ft.

Uh… who's treating combat as a tactical tabletop disconnected from the rest of the game world again?

 

[MarkB]

If the players see combat just as tactical tabletop, disconnected from the rest of the game world, you are correct. But if they do not they might ask questions like why can legendary creatures move faster when there are more enemies around them (to a limit)? Or why can they move and act so fast at all when they are, without enemies around, rather slow and ponderous? Why can the Sphinx only teleport when enemies are around but not when it is alone?

Lets take the magic carpet tactic I proposed.
When a single guy on a magic carpet attacks the Tarrasque in the middle of nowhere, it can move 100 ft per round. If there are two persons on the carpet, one for flying and one for throwing, the Tarrasque moves 120ft. And if you can get two throwers on the magic carpet, the Tarrasque moves 140ft.

This seems a bit pointless. One person or even two people taking on a Legendary monster unassisted is such a corner case in any typical D&D campaign that it's simply not worth getting upset about. D&D's combat rules are designed for small-group tactical skirmishes, and when you change the numbers out of that range - whether upwards or downwards - you are always going to get anomalies.

 

[Derren]

This seems a bit pointless. One person or even two people taking on a Legendary monster unassisted is such a corner case in any typical D&D campaign that it's simply not worth getting upset about. D&D's combat rules are designed for small-group tactical skirmishes, and when you change the numbers out of that range - whether upwards or downwards - you are always going to get anomalies.

Okay, lets use a more "realistic" example.

A group of 6 epic adventurers take on the Tarrasque. The Tarrasque overpowers them and kills 3, at which point the adventurers start running. At first, the Tarrasque easily outpaces them and kills another one. Suddenly the Tarrasque becomes slower, yet manages to kill another one. And now the adventurer, even though not moving faster than before, outruns the Tarrasque. And when the fleeing adventurer is joined by a cabal of druids who try to rescue him the tarrasque becomes faster again and finally kills him.

You can of course come up with some strange justification involving the Tarrasque not wanting to catch the adventurer at first, even if it ran after him as far as it could, but in the end the only reason for it is the legendary rule and its gameist nature.


Or just take the Sphinx which is prevented from flying and caught in a wall of fire or similar effect. It spends its move trying to get out but does not manage it and thus takes damage. Now the attacking wizard casts another spell and suddenly the Sphinx teleports out of the fire. Why only after the fire burned it and not before?

 

[Umbran]

You can of course come up with some strange justification involving the Tarrasque not wanting to catch the adventurer at first, even if it ran after him as far as it could, but in the end the only reason for it is the legendary rule and its gameist nature.

The *only* reason? No.

I can say it is narrativist! In the sense of supporting a better narrative - the Tarrasque moves as fast as is necessary to make a good story. The story is better, more tense (and more apt to continue) if that last adventurer gets away...

I've known many players who have a term for this - "moving at the speed of plot".

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TravelingAtTheSpeedOfPlot

So, no, it isn't really only gamist. Don't be so quick to label things.