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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 7391876" data-attributes="member: 6688937">Its not you, D&D, its me.Well, maybe its you a little bit.I feel your pain. There's several things that lead to this phenomenon, I think. First, D&D, at its best, is an incoherent mess of playstyles and goals. Its a cruddy strategy game, a cruddy simulation, "lets pretend", and a cruddy storygame all rolled into one somehow-not-as-cruddy-but-actually-kinda-cool ball. So, you come for the parts you like, and suffer through the parts you don't.Try getting your group to play one-shots of other systems. Exploring them is the only way to find out what your group will groove on best.Fate and Savage Worlds are both popular, but for very different reasons. Try BOTH. They'll give you a starting direction. Fate (especially the Accelerated version) can play a lot like very Basic Versions of D&D. Fate also doesn't have "baked in" values for armor and weapons so you have to (or get to, YMMV) put those in if you want them. Try it plain, first. You might be surprised at how your group reacts.Savage Worlds is more "complete" lout-of-the box. It has rules that, in many ways, are reminiscent of 3e and is closer to a traditional rpg. You'll find list of equipment and rules for how various spells and abilities work right in the text. It does use a point-based character creation system and you will face the learning curve of all that crunch.Savage Worlds also leans more heavily on traditional GM prep, whereas Fate can be run "on the fly" even by relatively new GMs.If your group liked Fate, you might want to try more freeform "narrativist" games. Try Dungeon World, it can often change your perspective on how to role play.There are also lots of free (or nearly free) games available. Ill toss in a recommendation for a little game called Old School Hack. Sheer brilliance, mechanically.If your group thinks Savage Worlds is better (IMO, its like 3e character crunch with a different resolution, initiative, and damage system, with an emphasis on quick resolution.) That points toward many crunchie systems.The point is, if you're ready to move on from D&D, you need to see what it is that actually like in Role-playing. Humans are amazingly bad at actually knowing this about themselves. I've got a guy at my table who will swear to you that he is in it for the story. Thing is, by observation, the story he wants to see is always the same: "I have bigger numbers and my character is the ossomist." That's a legit play goal, but it isn't what he thinks it is. The only way to figure it out is to try different games.The cool part is...you don't have to keep playing any particular game or even be a purist about the game your playing. There's no real need to be loyal. If you find a mechanic you love in Savage Worlds and can figure out how to bring it into D&D...go for it. If you figure out what's bringing you down about D&D, drop it and keep the rest. 5e is a very forgiving version of D&D.Anyway, I hope that helps.</blockquote>

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