OSR I never should have picked up Old School Essentials…

Anyone using the Rules Cyclopedia versions of monsters instead of the advanced fantasy conversions?

I was looking at the RC’s turning table with an eye towards extending the one in OSE past 7–9 HD when I noticed that RC has monsters that OSE added in advanced fantasy. They are … quite different. We had an encounter with a banshee last session that would have gone very differently if I were using the RC version. I was also struck by how much closer the ghost of Sir Chyde (in Winter’s Daughter) is to the ghost in RC than it is to the converted one in OSE advanced fantasy.
The OSE/FA Banshee looks more similar to the AD&D1 Banshee (Groaning Spirit) rather than the OSE Banshee (Haunt).
 

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kenada

Legend
Supporter
Interesting! No, I haven't done the comparison. I still haven't picked up a copy of the RC. Though perhaps I should compare the AF book vs Mentzer's monsters from the BECM Companion set, which would be the original source for the RC stuff, right?
They should be pretty close or identical. I just prefer checking the RC because it’s one PDF versus several. 😅
 

kenada

Legend
Supporter
The OSE/FA Banshee looks more similar to the AD&D1 Banshee (Groaning Spirit) rather than the OSE Banshee (Haunt).
That was my impression as well. AF is converting AD&D material even when BECM/RC has something equivalent that could be converted. I guess that makes sense given what it says it’s trying to do.

Anyway, I wouldn’t have even looked, but the player playing a cleric asked about turning undead with more than 9 HD. My first inclination was check what BECM/RC were doing, which was add higher-level undead to their tables. That’s when I started looking up monsters because the progression made no sense using the creatures in the AF monsters book.

What I ended up doing to extend the table was rebase it on top of 3e’s turning rules. If you use 7 as the result for same-HD undead and ±2 for ±1 HD increments, it comes out almost the same through 14th level. There are some differences (e.g., it lacks the bump at 2* HD for ghouls), but I felt that was okay compared to trying to extend the table out by HD using the higher-HD undead from BECM/RC.
 


Weiley31

Legend
I'm not gonna lie: I'm probably gonna get OSE, but I'm doing to be using a number of the Rules Cyclopedia/BECMI stuff added to it and other stuff. Like the Elf Attack Ranks and all that stuff.
I know OSE is compatible with everything B/X, what other stuff is it compatible with? Like BECMI related adventures, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 1E Adventures, and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition and all that?
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
I know OSE is compatible with everything B/X, what other stuff is it compatible with? Like BECMI related adventures
BECMI is super close, so it will be most compatible with that material.
Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 1E Adventures, and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition and all that?
Slightly less so but in the ballpark. Hit points are a bit higher in AD&D than B/X. AC switches from base 9 to base 10. And THAC0 changes from base 19 to base 20. I think.

The later 2E stuff will be the most trouble. Especially from the Player Options era. PCs get a pretty big boost so most things compensate.
 

Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
I know OSE is compatible with everything B/X, what other stuff is it compatible with? Like BECMI related adventures, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 1E Adventures, and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition and all that?
Broadly? In the sense that all the TSR editions are pretty similar.

Armor Classes are 1pt off from AD&D (base unarmored 9 in B/X, BECM & OSE instead of 10 in AD&D). Much of the point of the Advanced Fantasy expansion is to increase compatibility with AD&D modules and stuff, by giving B/X-style/scaled stats for monsters, classes, spells and magic items you find in AD&D which B/X and BECM didn't have.
 

Weiley31

Legend
BECMI is super close, so it will be most compatible with that material.

Slightly less so but in the ballpark. Hit points are a bit higher in AD&D than B/X. AC switches from base 9 to base 10. And THAC0 changes from base 19 to base 20. I think.

The later 2E stuff will be the most trouble. Especially from the Player Options era. PCs get a pretty big boost so most things compensate.
eh I'm just using mostly 2E adventures here and there.
 

I'm not gonna lie: I'm probably gonna get OSE, but I'm doing to be using a number of the Rules Cyclopedia/BECMI stuff added to it and other stuff. Like the Elf Attack Ranks and all that stuff.
I know OSE is compatible with everything B/X, what other stuff is it compatible with? Like BECMI related adventures, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 1E Adventures, and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd Edition and all that?
The official spiel (sp?) is that it's compatible with 1st edition and B/X. However, I don't see a problem with compatibility with 2nd edition or BECMI (except that OSE thieves will have better skills than BECMI).
 





Weiley31

Legend
The main idea was that I wanted to get OSE and just using their classes and rules. I'll have a much better Thief skill system via the first zine that offers it. Plus I'll probably add its stuff to Lamentations of the Flame Princess/use "some" of its adventures for OSE playthroughs.
 


Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
Yeah, I bought the first two books when it came out, then noped right on out, because if I wanted that level of complexity in a game, there were better games for it.
Yeah, I didn't even buy them. Stuff like the ability score splits seemed terribly dumb as well as unnecessarily complex, and the point based character building system for abilities seemed ripe for abuse. My group had already experimented a lot with the build your own class rules in the DMG and knew how messed up they were. Our usual DM had started a years-long path of customizing those for each new campaign setting that he ran, so we got into a bit of a house rules tangent.
 

Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
I think LotFP has some really great rules changes. Letting all classes use all weapons and armor, and restricting spellcasting for wizards and elves based on Encumbrance instead of armor is great.
TBF, those changes are also in context of really important changes to the classes and other rules.

Letting everyone use the same weapons is less of a big deal when only Fighters have an increasing attack progression, and direct damage spells are completely removed. Letting everyone use the same armor is less of a big deal when the setting generally limits armor in the first place, and if the revised encumbrance system means MUs and Elves are armor-limited if they want to cast anyway.

I do like the rules for LotFP quite a bit, but they do constitute a pretty substantial set of changes to B/X.
 

Yeah, have already informed my players it will be an option and jotted down a reasonable metric for it. Almost everyone has made a magic user of one of their stable of 3 characters, and at least 2 players are leaning to starting with the MU. Should be an interesting one.

Following the AD&D model as well, I'm giving starting MUs Read Magic as a default plus their one starting spell.
OSE/AF does have an AD&D-like rule for MU starting spells (based on INT score) and copying spells from scrolls and spellbooks (with % chance of success).
 

Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
OSE/AF does have an AD&D-like rule for MU starting spells (based on INT score) and copying spells from scrolls and spellbooks (with % chance of success).
Right. This discussion was in the context of him saying that he was starting with just Basic OSE, and that he'd consider including Advanced elements once he had a chance to peruse them. I was suggesting that additional spell acquisition is worth including from the start.
 

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