D&D 5E I still want D&D and Beyond, but...

[dave2008]

I've been really bummed the last week or so with the OGL news. I simply can't get myself up to really do anything D&D / RPG related. I was briefly excited about changing to a new platform, but that soon faded. I was checking DnD Beyond (DDB) this morning to see if there was any OGL news and I realized something. I want to play D&D, not another game, and I want to use DDB. There is a lot of interesting content on DDB (a lot of it free) that reminds of Dragon/Dungeon magazine. I want to continue with my 5e homebrew game, it is just about perfect for my group.

I know technically I can continue playing, but this whole OGL debacle has just drained the RPG will out of me. I guess I feel betrayed? I don't know. Even the calls to create a new open system or rally behind another system just feel wrong and a bit like a betrayal as well. I like D&D and I like sharing it with others. I like the shared community. These forums are, in fact, the only social media I really engage in. I like hearing what @Micah Sweet , @Parmandur, @Maxperson , @TheSword, @Ruin Explorer, @Stalker0, @Matrix Sorcica, and many, many others have to say. I doubt I get that if I leave D&D. I am just finding it very hard to have the desire to play or engage in D&D right now.

For me, the best, and possible the only solution, is a new OGL 1.0(b) that adds that is irrevocable and next to nothing else. I don't even think I want a siloed OGL1.1 anymore (which I previously thought would be fine). Otherwise I just might leave the hobby all together.

 

[eyeheartawk]

Old versions of D&D games won't go away nor will their OGL based progeny.

The great things about RPGs is that you an just have an old book and play forever needing nothing else.

I mean, the undeniable truth of that fact is why WOTC is doing all of this in the first place.

Take a break, and play D&D in whatever form (whether is actually, officially, "D&D" or not) strikes your fancy.

 

[dave2008]

Old versions of D&D games won't go away nor will their OGL based progeny.

The great things about RPGs is that you an just have an old book and play forever needing nothing else.

I can play forever, and we use our own setting, but I have lost the will too currently. I reminds me of when I skipped 2e and 3e.

I mean, the undeniable truth of that fact is why WOTC is doing all of this in the first place.

I think Hasbro is doing this, not WotC.

Take a break, and play D&D in whatever form (whether is actually, officially, "D&D" or not) strikes your fancy.

Yep, that is probably the solution. However, I do have some commitments to 5e that I don't want to drop.

 

[Mort]

Accidental post!

 

[FrogReaver]

Old versions of D&D games won't go away nor will their OGL based progeny.

This isn't clearly the case anymore.

 

[eyeheartawk]

This isn't clearly the case anymore.

What I mean is, what's out there now won't go away. Even if you accept the terms of 1.1 it explicitly states this.

 

[Baldurs_Underdark]

[...]and I want to use DDB. There is a lot of interesting content on DDB (a lot of it free) that reminds of Dragon/Dungeon magazine. [...]

(emphasis mine)

That's the thing, isn't it? You all got hooked on an amazing platform (DDB) that has tons of information, functionality and a great user interface. And then the startup company sold it, and now someone wants to make money.

The first hit is for free. After that...

 

[FrogReaver]

What I mean is, what's out there now won't go away. Even if you accept the terms of 1.1 it explicitly states this.

What I mean is, that's actually not clearly the case.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Nothing wrong with taking a break from gaming or D&D for any reason if you just aren't feeling it. If you can get your group to go along with it... pick up another RPG and play a short 3-month campaign or something. Most likely this whole OGL thing will be settled down by then. After al... this whole brouhaha has only been going on for less than a month. Three months from now everything will probably have been cleared up and either everyone becomes comfortable dipping their feet in the D&D/OGC pool... or a full break happens and you can make the choice then as to whether the OGL matters enough to make you stop playing D&D altogether.

 

[eyeheartawk]

What I mean is, that's actually not clearly the case.

Sure it will?

Anything already published under OGL 1.0a remains valid and fine even according to Hasbro's terrible new license. Is anybody saying otherwise?

 

[FrogReaver]

Anything already published under OGL 1.0a remains valid and fine even according to Hasbro's terrible new license. Is anybody saying otherwise?

yes. almost everyone is uncertain about that point.

 

[Retreater]

I can play forever, and we use our own setting, but I have lost the will too currently. I reminds me of when I skipped 2e and 3e.

I hear ya.
I know I have posted a lot of angry, bitter comments on here the past couple days. I'm sure that doesn't help others who are searching for community right now. Your post puts that into perspective, so thank you.
A lot of us in the fandom are hurt. We see the revocation as a broken promise. It might seem silly to phrase it this way, but we've been in a relationship with Wizards for over 20 years. A lot of trust is gone.
The thing we should all do is work on our mental health. (For example: Find joy in other things. Allow ourselves to feel loss too. Give some distance to the hobby.) I'm not sure what will work for you, but don't take your mental needs lightly.
For me, I have a deep fear of isolation, being outcast. I have interpreted the leaks as WotC saying "we're too big to care about you anymore" and "the scene is moving on past you" and "you can forget about publishing now." If I get to play now, it's going to be a lesser game, a knock off, and who knows if I can find players.
Gaming is clearly a big part of all of us. We should look inside to see how this is affecting us.

 

[eyeheartawk]

yes. almost everyone is uncertain about that point.

I don't think so.

I haven't seen the concern about that particular point. I mean, why else would Morrus and a bunch of other publishers be rushing out unfinished product so it's "published" before the 13th then?

In any event, I don't want to derail the OP here too much. At the very least, if you have a physical copy of a game or a PDF saved locally there's nothing Hasbro can do to stop you in any reading of the news.

 

[FrogReaver]

I don't think so.

I haven't seen the concern about that particular point. I mean, why else would Morrus and a bunch of other publishers be rushing out unfinished product so it's "published" before the 13th then?

Because it's safer than trying to release them after the 13th - but that doesn't mean doing that is without this particular risk either.

In any event, I don't want to derail the OP here too much. At the very least, if you have a physical copy of a game or a PDF saved locally there's nothing Hasbro can do to stop you in any reading of the news.

Sounds good to me.

 

[DEFCON 1]

(emphasis mine)

That's the thing, isn't it? You all got hooked on an amazing platform (DDB) that has tons of information, functionality and a great user interface. And then the startup company sold it, and now someone wants to make money.

The first hit is for free. After that...

This whole thing is another situation that can fall under "Love the Art, not the Artist".

The Art (in this case the DDB program) might be wonderful and a person might love it. But if the Artist was a schmuck, does that mean you have to give the Art up? Some people would say yes, others would say no. So it's going to come down to every individual's personal feelings on the matter.

But an important distinction here in this particular case is that the Artist isn't actually the person/people folks are mad at... it's the "Artist's Patron" they have a problem with (to continue using the metaphor). The Artists of DDB are all the people who design and program and work on the app, most of whom (if not all) we have no issues or problems with. So a person can still use DDB in acknowledgement of the work those Artists do if they want. Yes, it does mean putting gold in the pockets of the Patron (in this case WotC)... but if you don't, then you are also hurting the Artists who made the thing you love because that gold trickles down to them too.

So nothing is really that cut and dried about any of this.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I think Hasbro is doing this, not WotC.

I mean, there's not really a difference, especially with ex-Microsoft execs in charge of all parts. The specifics of the OGL 1.1 plan are likely down to Dan Rawson and his team, because he's supposed to be in charge of understanding D&D and handling that area of the business, and it seems to have appeared after he arrived. However, the instruction "MAKE MORE MONEY!!!" undoubtedly came from Hasbro. The OneD&D initiative is a Cynthia Williams thing, it seems (though some kind of new edition for 2024 was predicted loooooong before Feb. 2021 when she joined).

Also note that virtually all the plans for 1D&D are basically exaggerated/more extreme versions of the plans for 4E. So it's not like WotC doesn't have history here.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

This whole thing is another situation that can fall under "Love the Art, not the Artist".

There's no artist here, so that's not a good analogy.

This is a corporate product.

But an important distinction here in this particular case is that the Artist isn't actually the person/people folks are mad at... it's the "Artist's Patron"

No.

Even if we take the metaphor, the artist and his patron are the same exact person. You're also completely mixing your metaphor when you're suddenly talking about "artists" plural out of nowhere, when what you actually mean is "employees". The vast majority of whom have absolutely no creative role whatsoever, so calling them "artists" on any level is bizarre.

 

[Steampunkette]

I don't think so.

I haven't seen the concern about that particular point. I mean, why else would Morrus and a bunch of other publishers be rushing out unfinished product so it's "published" before the 13th then?

In any event, I don't want to derail the OP here too much. At the very least, if you have a physical copy of a game or a PDF saved locally there's nothing Hasbro can do to stop you in any reading of the news.

As someone who is just starting in the industry:

There are 3pp who intend to pull their entire catalogue down after the 13th because the OGL 1.0a being "Deauthorized" may mean that all 3rd party content becomes 1.1a whether you publish something new or not. That Wizards is going to go after anyone and everyone who has anything published and steal their work if it's still being sold after the cutoff date.

Whether they actually -can- steal previously released work or not is a question. The chilling effect on the industry is not.

As for your trouble, Dave2008... I would suggest keeping D&D Beyond. And buying more WotC books over time to improve its functionality. And if people are willing to put their content onto DDB to become interns for Hasbro who -might- earn a little cash when the company isn't stealing their work, buy that, too.

But also, please, support your 3rd party publishers who have no real economic choice but to move on. And particularly keep an eye on A5e, which may get De-OGL'd. And if it does, it'll be D&D without the seal of approval of WotC and you can probably use it, too.

Personally I'm hoping we do get rid of the OGL for Level Up, and I get to produce tons of content for it, going forward. It'd be great to get to continue to talk to you about it, -and- continue talking about D&D stuff in general that you can also use in the system!

 

[FrogReaver]

There's no artist here, so that's not a good analogy.

This is a corporate product.

No.

Even if we take the metaphor, the artist and his patron are the same exact person. You're also completely mixing your metaphor when you're suddenly talking about "artists" plural out of nowhere, when what you actually mean is "employees". The vast majority of whom have absolutely no creative role whatsoever, so calling them "artists" on any level is bizarre.

I disagree. WOTC the corporation employees designers and artists. There is a difference in WOTC and their employees.

 

[DEFCON 1]

There's no artist here, so that's not a good analogy.

This is a corporate product.

No.

Even if we take the metaphor, the artist and his patron are the same exact person. You're also completely mixing your metaphor when you're suddenly talking about "artists" plural out of nowhere, when what you actually mean is "employees". The vast majority of whom have absolutely no creative role whatsoever, so calling them "artists" on any level is bizarre.

Really? No Artists in computer programming? Interesting take.

I don't agree.