I strike... and strike, and strike...

[Kannik]

This may seem like a somewhat obvious possibility, but I don't think I've seen it proposed before.

Rather than 'force' a character to wait until their BAB is 6+ to make a second attack (or more), simply allow them to do so at any time, with the usual -5 penalty, up to the maximum 5 attacks per round. This means for lower level characters, some of their attacks will be at serious penalties to hit. Any attack that would start at a negative BAB does not count a natrual 20 as an automatic hit.

Impact: only things with really low ACs would have to worry about this at lower character levels. But there's no real reason to force a character to wait and suddenly gain the ability to make that second attack. If someone at 1st level wants to try to make 5 attacks, well. Knock themselves out. Which they may just do.

Kannik

 

[Crothian]

Interesting idea. It'll really make combat a lot longer and givea huge advantage to iniaitve.

Why a total of five attacks? You are aware that the max in the current game is four.

I assume this will apply to everything. Goblins, Giants, and oozes, too.

 

[AGGEMAM]

You might want to take a look at this:

http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10186

 

[Humanophile]

The problem with it is that there's no real penalty attached, all you do is hand everyone a bundle of attacks. What you're effectively doing is allowing people to turn magic, strength, weapon focus, etc. into BAB, and even allow a little "BAB debt". (Your first attack hits on a 13+. If you have a free chance to hit, with the only limitation being that it only hits on an 18+, who wouldn't take it?) So what you're doing is taking a lot of oomph out of fighter types, by making anyone else mostly as capable of hitting hard and fast, and at higher levels turning one of their major advantages into another bland to-hit bonus.

 

[wolfpunk]

I think the idea is possible to work with. I would perhaps offer a suggestion such as this. Make the penalty different according to BAB progression. For fighter type characters the extra attack would be at a -5 penalty. For Rogue type characters the extra attack would be at a -10 penalty. For wizard type characters the extra attack would be at a -15 penalty. I would also say only one extra attack may be made in this fashion each round.

 

[Kannik]

fumble! AIIEEEE!

Interesting idea. It'll really make combat a lot longer and givea huge advantage to iniaitve.

Why a total of five attacks? You are aware that the max in the current game is four.

I assume this will apply to everything. Goblins, Giants, and oozes, too.

OOOp! Silly me. } I meant the same 4... for some reason I counted it as 5.

Indeed, it would apply to everything -- so if that orc has some buddies holding you down... he could make those extra attacks and pummel you nicely. }

The problem with it is that there's no real penalty attached, all you do is hand everyone a bundle of attacks. What you're effectively doing is allowing people to turn magic, strength, weapon focus, etc. into BAB, and even allow a little "BAB debt".

Hmm. That is indeed something I had forgotten about--the plethora of bonuses to hit out there that could push some to have rediculously higher 'effective BABs' in this case. While I don't necessarily see this as a gross problem (magic should be able to pump one up), I do agree that it removes one of the niceties/bennies of being a fighter.

Make the penalty different according to BAB progression. For fighter type characters the extra attack would be at a -5 penalty. For Rogue type characters the extra attack would be at a -10 penalty. For wizard type characters the extra attack would be at a -15 penalty. I would also say only one extra attack may be made in this fashion each round.

Possibilities... not sure I'd like to limit it to just one extra attack 'below BAB' per round (I'd rather not set a limit that feels as 'artificial' as the sudden extra attack per round at BAB 6), but the different progression could be a good way to redress the balance towards Fighters as the better combatants. Only trouble would be when a character is multiclassed. Base it on their highest level class?

Kannik

 

[twjensen]

Penalties?

Huh? And Say what? Say again?

This penalizes *fighters*? I must be going deaf, or blind or something.

Whose going to have the highest attack bonus?

fighters.

Whose going to take EVERY effective attack bonus boosting item?

fighters.

Whose going to have a +20 to hit at 10th level, allowing 4 effective attacks at 1/2 the normal level?

fighters.

Don't think this house rule penalizes fighters, myself, but that could be because I've looked at high-level character sheets from our actual campaign and noticed that wizards don't generally load up on BAB-boosting magic. They tend to like silly little gizmos like rings of wizardry, pearls of power and the like.

Now, that's out of the way. This gives fighters a rather large amount of free extra power to pummel anything with a low AC. The fact that they level and then "all the sudden" have a new attack is just a symptom of the system. Wizards get a level and "all the sudden" can throw fireballs at people. Should they be able to throw fireballs at lvl 1 but with a penalty to the save DC? Maybe. If you're trying to run a VERY different game of D&D, that is. I like the game the way it is. I note that leveling sucks but I note that skill point based systems take too long to get character sheets in working order. In D&D I take a few minutes to level up every few sessions rather than trying to spend the evening's skill points every single dang session.

 

[Kannik]

...in the end...

I guess it would need be played with/playtested to see how it goes.

Yeah, it is a symptom of the system, the level-up-ish thing, which was what I was trying to downplay... but then maybe it would indeed make the other 'level up'ish things more glaring.

As for skill-based systems et al, well, just having gotten Hero 5th ed, I'm stoked to run a fantasy game in it, having loved the 4th ed in the past. It does take longer to set up a character, but I guess I don't mind that... }

Thanks everyone for all the replies,

Kannik

 

[gamecat]

Re: Penalties?

They tend to like silly little gizmos like rings of wizardry, pearls of power and the like.

My silly little gizmos are not silly but useful. Ring of Wizardry II. Can't attack 4 times what you can't see (Blindness/Deafness 10/day)