I think Identify should scale!

[MerakSpielman]

This would eliminate the problems some people percieve with identify vs. analyze dwoemer. Or that debate about cursed items going on right now.

The short description of this rule would be: The higher the level of the mage casting identify, the more is discovered about the item. He can always tell if there is unidentified magic remaining in an item (including curses) but cannot tell in any way the nature of this magic (cursed or keen?) or how many other functions might be present.

There are a couple of mechanics we can use to do this.

1) Actual level of the mage. For every 3 levels, he identifies another trait of the item.


2) Spellcraft check. The identify spell is just a tool to allow the mage to see the enchantments on an item and examine them professionally.
First function of an item: always identified (DC 1)
Second function of an item: DC 15
Third function of an item: DC 25
Fourth function of an item: DC 35
Fifth(!) function of an item: DC 45

I don't think these DCs are out of reach for a character of a level high enough to find weapons/armor with that many functions. Curses would count as a function. The caster makes 1 spellcraft check per casting of identify.

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Which option (if either) do you prefer? Should the numbers be tweaked?

Should the long casting time of Analyze Dwoemer be simulated by saying it takes 8 hours to analyze each function of an item?

Should the material component scale upward in price at all?
Or maybe no material component is required, but for each 200gp you spend on one, you get a +5 modifier to your spellcraft check or something?

Perhaps if you want to be able to identify more than one function, you have to memorize and cast identify as a progressively higher level of spell. (1 function=1st, 2 functions=3rd, 3 functions=5th, 4 functions=7th, 5 functions=9th). That could, in effect, combine the two systems above. Or not...

What do you all think?

 

[Mordane76]

Perhaps if you want to be able to identify more than one function, you have to memorize and cast identify as a progressively higher level of spell. (1 function=1st, 2 functions=3rd, 3 functions=5th, 4 functions=7th, 5 functions=9th). That could, in effect, combine the two systems above. Or not...

Of all the options you posted, I think a variant on this option is the best. Make identify a spell that can be added to in your spellbook. As you advance in level, you have the option to make the additions, making it a more powerful (and hence higher level) spell. You can always just memorize/cast the shorter (and less powerful) pieces of the spell if you just want to make a quick stab at an item you found. I think I'd also have the spell's casting time scale with these increases in level. Unfortunately, my posit makes identify almost completely useless to sorcerers unless you allow them to scale the spell in their memory, but who's going to want to waste a 9th level spell slot on identify, even if it will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about that artifact you just dug out of the lich's chest?

We've had some difficulties with this spell in our games, and we've handled identify as follows -- it takes eight hours to cast it if you're actually casting it yourself, or it takes one action if you're casting it from a scroll (whoever made the scroll already spent the eight hours). I prefer to follow the written source material until I hack at something myself, so the parameters of the spell are unchanged, as are the parameters for analyze dweomer and legend lore. We initially discussed returning to the 2E casting cost of 8 temporary Constitution or 8 hours, but we use a VP/WP system similar to d20 SW, and 8 temp Con would have been murder to most of our casters.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Thanks for the input! Anybody else?

 

[Dr_Rictus]

First, your thread subject is a little strange, since identify does, in fact, scale with level. It lets you identify more items for your 100 gp.

Second, you shouldn't talk about the problems "everybody" has with identify. The only reason it might seem like "everybody" has a problem is that people who think it's just fine (like me) don't generally start threads saying "I think identify is just fine!"

 

[Jeph]

First, your thread subject is a little strange, since identify does, in fact, scale with level. It lets you identify more items for your 100 gp.

Second, you shouldn't talk about the problems "everybody" has with identify. The only reason it might seem like "everybody" has a problem is that people who think it's just fine (like me) don't generally start threads saying "I think identify is just fine!"

Whoa, what helpful advice. Seriously, don't flame people just because they are trying to introduce a solution to a problem! And don't say it's not a problem just because you don't think it is.

Merak: I'll go for the second mechanic you intorduced; the one that requires a Spellcraft check. On the matter of spending GP to enhance the check, make it +1 per 40 GP spent: I don't get why you need to spend a whole chunk of money to get a whole chunk of plusses, but can't spend a bit of money to get a few plusses.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Seriously, don't flame people just because they are trying to introduce a solution to a problem! And don't say it's not a problem just because you don't think it is.

I didn't say it wasn't a problem just because I didn't think it was. I did say the original poster should not jump to conclusions about what "everybody" thinks, when that assessment has obvious flaws. I don't consider pointing that out to be "flaming" anybody. If you read a flame it's not because I wrote one.

Supposing that "everybody" thinks what the vocal dissenters think is, however, an honest mistake, which is something I'm having difficulty saying about your having just completely misrepresented my post. In fact, when you say that I represent my opinion as anything other than just that, you are simply either lying or unwilling to actually read my post. I invite anyone to read my post and see that my opinion about identify is clearly indicated as being just that. I feel that you owe me an apology.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

By the way, MerakSpielman, if you're interested on a different take on this subject, you might check out the object loresight spell from the Book of Eldritch Might II. It gives a potentially considerable amount of information to even low-level casters, but they have to work for it with multiple castings of the spell.

 

[dvvega]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Identify. I am in agreement with Dr_Rictus.

The spell from Monte Cook's book is good and well balanced (requiring multiple castings to get all information), and yet it doesn't overshadow identify.

What follows is done without a book in front of me so please don't attack me for misinformation ...

Identify will handle almost all magical items until you get to around 7/8th level. I don't have a book with me, however I don't think items of > +2 bonus in general are floating about until around 9th level (the min level for a wizard to make one).

This means that at most you'll have a +1 ability on a +1 weapon. Identify will say "+1 item" and you'll know it's got something else.

Once you get to 9th level you can get analyze dweomer and it will be on par with +3 and greater items.

If your party desperately wants soemthing analyzed tell them to visit a sage or something ... 300gp will get the Analyze Dweomer spell cast per item.

 

[theoremtank]

Would applying any sort of metamagic feat to the Identify spell enhance its ability?

 

[dvvega]

No metamagic feat that I know of ...

the only variable is the number of rounds based on level AFAIK.

You could perhaps invent a new group of metamagic feats to do with divinations.