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I think WotC has it backwards (re: story arcs)
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<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6622355" data-attributes="member: 37579"><p>Computer games were on my mind when I posted. Not just because kids will want to tell their own stories or own takes on a video game. But, as Minecraft has shown, kids today are nothing if not creative and inventive. </p><p></p><p>Because everyone here tends to be so experienced and knows so much it's easy to think of the game as this big daunting beast. Which it can be. But it's not necessarily so, as you can play while muddling through the rules or only half-knowing the game. In the likely event of a brand new person learning the game there won't be much rules lawyering going on as everyone is learning together. It will be one person who kinda sorta knows the rules and a bunch of people looking to them as the expert. </p><p>Very often new players will be introduced by someone who already knows: a family member or older relative. Which helps the initial learning curve. </p><p>I think we should be wary of things that make the game <em>harder</em> for new players to get into, but I'm less concerned about going out of the way to make things <em>easier</em> for new players. If that makes sense.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The difference between a number of small adventures and single big adventures is largely one of presentation. Princes of the Apocalypse is just as simple to pull apart as four 64-page products (but a fraction of the price). I'm super critical of PotA (as can be seen in my review) but one of its strengths is the ability to effortlessly break it into its component dungeons. I'd seriously recommend it as a source of easy inspiration and dungeon maps.</p><p></p><p>Plus, there's like a bajillion adventures already available for prior editions. Many of which (the 1e and 2e ones) are pretty convertible on the fly, and you can sometimes use low-level 3e ones pretty much as written (the numbers are close enough). And if you're just looking for a site or settlement, no conversion is needed. </p><p>Why should WotC work at making dozens of small adventures that are unlikely to sell well when there's already an adventure just right for any situation on D&D Classics? Especially since they still make money for D&D Classics. Each sale of that likely generates as much profit as a new adventure with a fraction of the production costs (since they only need to scan it and not write it). And there are so many gems of adventures - either modules or in old issues of Dungeon - that have been forgotten or seldom played.</p><p></p><p>And, of course, there's Goodman Games, which has their adventures. I think [MENTION=51747]dmccoy1693[/MENTION] has some adventures in the works. Plus En5sider. It's not like WotC has a monopoly on creativity and their seal of approval magically makes an adventure better.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If they did it in 2e and 3e but didn't do it in 4e there's very likely a reason. WotC is a business not a charity </p><p>Again, WotC likely wants to do a Realms book. But they need more than three months to write it. </p><p></p><p>If you're just looking for ideas then there are dozens of setting products available on PDFs (or physical copies on eBay), many selling for dirt cheap prices. The ideas and inspiration within are just as valid. </p><p>Or go with 3rd Party campaign settings. I have a fondness for Fantasy Flight Games Midnight setting for 3e. Check that out. But there's lots of others. Green Ronin just released an update of their Freeport book that looks fantastic. Ptolus is available as print-on-demand. And there are others in the works by 3PP that aren't out yet because it takes a long time to write a campaign setting.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Paizo is still a business. They don't make products just to make products, and need to prove to themselves that a product will sell before they make it. It took years for them to decide to do the Iron Gods adventure path specifically because they were worried about sales. </p><p>For example, their old Flip-Mats have been out of print for years. But many were iconic locations like ships, forests, inns, and the like. There was a continual demand for these to be reprinted (since before there was even a Pathfinder RPG) but Paizo was always reluctant because they needed to sell a minimum amount of copies. Only now, when the brand is HUGE and they have a much larger audience are they risking reprinting these maps. But it took 6-7 years.</p><p></p><p>Even then, Paizo is a unique case. They're technically a smaller company, so they can manage with lesser profits from products. And they can funnel the profits right back into the business, not having to answer to shareholders. The owner of Paizo is also independently wealthy: Lisa Stevens got paid well for the sale of WotC to Hasbro and started Paizo because she got bored with an early retirement. It's effectively a hobby or even vanity business - albeit one run by someone with a business degree and experience who knows what they're doing. It's great for us fans, but it's not really something other companies can emulate as easily.</p><p></p><p>As for the magazines, well, there's Gygax Magazine and En5sider. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I've answered this multiple times in the past dozen threads on the topic. All arguments on this topic have been made and further discussion is needless. I don't feel the need to stay on "I want more books!!" merry-go-round, and only posted to this thread because I thought it was a slightly different discussion that warranted a response.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 6622355, member: 37579"] Computer games were on my mind when I posted. Not just because kids will want to tell their own stories or own takes on a video game. But, as Minecraft has shown, kids today are nothing if not creative and inventive. Because everyone here tends to be so experienced and knows so much it's easy to think of the game as this big daunting beast. Which it can be. But it's not necessarily so, as you can play while muddling through the rules or only half-knowing the game. In the likely event of a brand new person learning the game there won't be much rules lawyering going on as everyone is learning together. It will be one person who kinda sorta knows the rules and a bunch of people looking to them as the expert. Very often new players will be introduced by someone who already knows: a family member or older relative. Which helps the initial learning curve. I think we should be wary of things that make the game [I]harder[/I] for new players to get into, but I'm less concerned about going out of the way to make things [I]easier[/I] for new players. If that makes sense. The difference between a number of small adventures and single big adventures is largely one of presentation. Princes of the Apocalypse is just as simple to pull apart as four 64-page products (but a fraction of the price). I'm super critical of PotA (as can be seen in my review) but one of its strengths is the ability to effortlessly break it into its component dungeons. I'd seriously recommend it as a source of easy inspiration and dungeon maps. Plus, there's like a bajillion adventures already available for prior editions. Many of which (the 1e and 2e ones) are pretty convertible on the fly, and you can sometimes use low-level 3e ones pretty much as written (the numbers are close enough). And if you're just looking for a site or settlement, no conversion is needed. Why should WotC work at making dozens of small adventures that are unlikely to sell well when there's already an adventure just right for any situation on D&D Classics? Especially since they still make money for D&D Classics. Each sale of that likely generates as much profit as a new adventure with a fraction of the production costs (since they only need to scan it and not write it). And there are so many gems of adventures - either modules or in old issues of Dungeon - that have been forgotten or seldom played. And, of course, there's Goodman Games, which has their adventures. I think [MENTION=51747]dmccoy1693[/MENTION] has some adventures in the works. Plus En5sider. It's not like WotC has a monopoly on creativity and their seal of approval magically makes an adventure better. If they did it in 2e and 3e but didn't do it in 4e there's very likely a reason. WotC is a business not a charity Again, WotC likely wants to do a Realms book. But they need more than three months to write it. If you're just looking for ideas then there are dozens of setting products available on PDFs (or physical copies on eBay), many selling for dirt cheap prices. The ideas and inspiration within are just as valid. Or go with 3rd Party campaign settings. I have a fondness for Fantasy Flight Games Midnight setting for 3e. Check that out. But there's lots of others. Green Ronin just released an update of their Freeport book that looks fantastic. Ptolus is available as print-on-demand. And there are others in the works by 3PP that aren't out yet because it takes a long time to write a campaign setting. Paizo is still a business. They don't make products just to make products, and need to prove to themselves that a product will sell before they make it. It took years for them to decide to do the Iron Gods adventure path specifically because they were worried about sales. For example, their old Flip-Mats have been out of print for years. But many were iconic locations like ships, forests, inns, and the like. There was a continual demand for these to be reprinted (since before there was even a Pathfinder RPG) but Paizo was always reluctant because they needed to sell a minimum amount of copies. Only now, when the brand is HUGE and they have a much larger audience are they risking reprinting these maps. But it took 6-7 years. Even then, Paizo is a unique case. They're technically a smaller company, so they can manage with lesser profits from products. And they can funnel the profits right back into the business, not having to answer to shareholders. The owner of Paizo is also independently wealthy: Lisa Stevens got paid well for the sale of WotC to Hasbro and started Paizo because she got bored with an early retirement. It's effectively a hobby or even vanity business - albeit one run by someone with a business degree and experience who knows what they're doing. It's great for us fans, but it's not really something other companies can emulate as easily. As for the magazines, well, there's Gygax Magazine and En5sider. I've answered this multiple times in the past dozen threads on the topic. All arguments on this topic have been made and further discussion is needless. I don't feel the need to stay on "I want more books!!" merry-go-round, and only posted to this thread because I thought it was a slightly different discussion that warranted a response. [/QUOTE]
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