I want to do something cool Every Round!!!

[delericho]

I have really come to dislike the fight/rest paradigm that has crept into D&D (or, perhaps, was always there). That being the case, I generally prefer some of the measures that exist to combat it (per-encounter powers, reserve HP, etc). However, I also like the resource management aspects of the game, and wouldn't like to see those removed entirely.

To that end, I would like to see two things done:

1) Increase the emphasis on more powerful limited-use magic items, as opposed to permanent effect items. A longsword +3 is almost certainly more useful and desirable than a longsword that, once per day, can be called on to summon lightning bolts from the sky... but the latter is probably more interesting. Similarly, although a ring with a single wish in it is powerful, and extremely cool, the fact that it can be used exactly once essentially prevents it from destroying your game.

2) Implement some sort of 'token pool' system, similar to that used in Iron Heroes. This should be used to manage Wizard resources, and should refresh to a 'rest' level after a short period of rest. If exhausted in an encounter, the pool can be partially replenished by the character by sacrificing some or all of his actions for the turn. For added interest, I recommend that the 'rest' level of the pool be set somewhat lower than the maximum level of the pool, and it should probably be set such that using the character's most powerful spells should almost totally exhaust the pool.

I'm also inclined towards thinking that every level should be somehow 'meaningful' to a character, and every feat should likewise be significant. When you're only getting seven feats, ever, having to spend one of these on Toughness to qualify for your PrC of choice is rather lame, IMO. On the other hand, 'fixing' that issue could be as simple as giving out more feats. Allowing a character to choose an ability from his classes' talent tree(s) every odd level, and allowing him to choose a feat every even level would be a nice arrangement, again IMO.

 

[ZSutherland]

I don't think the problem is inherently with resource-management, though I agree it's possible to have fun in a game where that aspect is minimalized, so much as I think the problem is with D&D's variations on resource management. Take the fighter and the wizard as examples. They share two resources: hit points and actions. Actions are per round resources; they refresh every 6 seconds, but they are still resources. Proper expenditure of your actions each round can mean the difference between success and failure. Neither class has an advantage here as they both get the same one full action or one standard and one move or move-equivalent action and whatever free actions the DM allows. The fighter is well head on hit-points as a resource. For one, he gets a substantially higher hit die, but more importantly his much better AC means he loses those resources less frequently. 20 hps for a 3rd level fighter in plate goes a lot further than 9 hitpoints on a 3rd level wizard in robes. They each have one major resource that isn't shared. The fighter has BAB (via feats like Power Attack and Expertise), which he can dispense each round for a few different effects and which refresh each round to their original state. The wizard has spells that refresh each day. That's the problem. If the fighter's unique (or relatively since they are admittedly feats anyone can take) resource is negated somehow (the foe has a very high AC that precludes PA and does energy damage that precludes Expertise), and all he can do is stand there and play whack-a-monster, he's still basically doing what he does and doing it well. If the wizard's unique resources are negated (because he's cast them all or is in a null-magic zone or anti-magic field, etc.), he's reduced to doing almost nothing of value. As long as they both have hit points and actions, they can both do something, but that something for the wizard isn't much better than nothing.

 

[Gold Roger]

I mean to disrespect to Rodney, but the idea of this being where D&D should be headed just does not fly with me. For one thing, Book of Nine Swords, while interesting, is certainly NOT what I want to see the D&D game turn into. That's just... too much stuff going on. When everyone has a source of limitless power that produces a predictable range of effects constantly, it leaves the grounding of plausibility so far behind that it turns D&D into Wuxia Theater, where something absolutely fantastic is going on every minute, and this is so far removed from reality that it creates a lack of a frame of reference for me. To me, the fantastic needs an element of the mundane to make it fantastic, otherwise, even the fantastic is mundane. I'm sure some like it, but it turns me off, big time.

To me, the ultimate extreme that this is taken to is like something from one of Stephen Colbert's Tek Jansen excerpts -- sooo out there that it's just "too much."

Sorta.

There definitely is some vibe that I don't want to cross in to much either.

Shadow Hand/Desert Wind let essentially fighters shadow jump, fly and airwalk at will. That's to far.

That said, there's some stuff in ToB that fighters should be able to do, especially in the Iron Heart, Tiger Blade and White Raven Disciplins.

 

[MerricB]

Sorta.

There definitely is some vibe that I don't want to cross in to much either.

Shadow Hand/Desert Wind let essentially fighters shadow jump, fly and airwalk at will. That's to far.

Err... no. They don't. They allow *swordsages* to shadow jump, fly and airwalk at will. The Warblade is the fighter of the new classes. The Swordsage is the mystical monk/warrior. The reason the Swordsage only gets a medium Base Attack progression is because they have all these magical effects.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

I have really come to dislike the fight/rest paradigm that has crept into D&D (or, perhaps, was always there).

Always there. Definitely. The difficulty of the challenges is the major point of determining when you rest. My impression is a lot of older challenges were just less difficult than some of them today, thus allowing you to progress more before you needed to rest.

It's one reason why I consider The Spire of Long Shadows to be a badly designed adventure. Every encounter is APL+2 or more. There's no continuity of exploration as a result - if you have a lot of APL-2 encounters, you can explore longer. (I like the content of SoLS, but it has structural problems).

One difficulty with the resources available in D&D at present is how low-level spells quickly become obsolete. One great aspect of AD&D (1e) is that magic missile and fireball never became really obsolete - so, high level PCs could continue longer because they didn't need 6th level spells to be effective; 1st and 3rd level spells would still do the job. (Of course, many high-level spells sucked, but that's another problem).

When only the top two levels of spells available to a wizard are really useful, then the resource crunch is exacerbated.

I've recently been playing NWN for the first time (I normally get to computer games very late). My wizard has a rod of cold, that allows him to do about 1d4 points of cold damage every round; thus, for those crucial low levels, he's never useless.

Cheers!

 

[painandgreed]

Essentially, he seems to be talking about wizards out of the core four classes. Maybe clerics. Fighters have all their feats. Rogues have all their skills. Clerics have fighting abilites after spells give out. Wizards are sort of useless.

Seems like one way to fix that would be to add new spells. Call them "Aura" spells, of which you can only have one of but gives the caster the ability to do something for 24 hours. Essentially, trading a slot (or more) for a use at will power. That would give the players their Warlock like powers and drop into the current Vancian magic system without issue besides balancing with other spells. The balancing part could be done by limiting the number allowed at any given time or some requiring some component.

Another solution might be to take the WoWism of making wands a weapon. Wizards can use wands all day long. No charges. hey simply are able to channel energy through the wand to fulfill the effect of the wand. Take the wand away and they lose the ability. That would sit better with me than something like Warlock abilites which seem overpowering to me, like many at will powers.

 

[Agent Oracle]

Do your players a favor: introduce them to Swashbuckling Cards

I started out with the base set of 110, now it's somewhere around 200. I have some players who come to me at the start of every session with a new Swashbuckling card sheet. I read over them, decide if they are balanced, and either fold them into the deck, or chuck them. it's only made the game better, and more action-y.

Players started out with only two apiece, but they were having so much fun that it became five cards in the hand. And the player just has to describe what the cards do dramatically for them to work.

 

[el-remmen]

As long as a character is alive and conscious, he is only as useless as its player allows him to be.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It doesn't have to be something cool every round, just something that fits the character. A Wizard that has to fall back to using a crossbow is now no better then a commoner.

One of the innovations that WoW brought to the (computer) table was that spellcasters could at least fire off shots with (limitless charge) wands when their mana ran out. Now, this wasn't as good as any of their spells, but it's something and it's more in character than a wizard with a crossbow.

(Actually, I'm pretty sure this came from a pen and paper RPG first, but damned if I can remember which.)

 

[Gold Roger]

Err... no. They don't. They allow *swordsages* to shadow jump, fly and airwalk at will. The Warblade is the fighter of the new classes. The Swordsage is the mystical monk/warrior. The reason the Swordsage only gets a medium Base Attack progression is because they have all these magical effects.

Cheers!

That they get unexplained magic and basically have suboptimal fighting abilities doesn't change the fact that they are still warriors (I used fighter as word for somebody who fights, not as the class-which was of course unclear and wrong). Warrior that get unexplained magical abilities. Abilities not even primarily magic classes get (to move that way at will).

I'm not saying that people that like it that way are wrong or the book shouldn't have been written. I'm supporting the notion that the idea of people walking on air because they are really good with a sword is not for everyone and shouldn't be considered to become part of the next editions Core Rules.