D&D General I wish people would avoid name-dropping Gary Gygax


log in or register to remove this ad

Disclaimer: This is not a thread about Gary Gygax, directly. This is a thread about the name, and the uses and abuses thereof. It is not about what you or I think about Gary Gygax as a person or as a game designer. It is not a thread about whether Gary was racist, sexist, theist, numismatic, thespian, smelled good, or his skills as a cobbler. It is a thread about his celebrity, para-social relationships, and how D&D fans act as stewards of his legacy.

I respect and care about Gary Gygax a lot. I've been on EN World since he was a fellow poster. I'm a big fan of history and giving credit where credit is due. And there are a lot of great threads about why Gary Gygax is important (e.g. Here D&D General - Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Magic Missile: Why Gygax Still Matters to Me or here D&D General - The Human Side of D&D History - From Gary Gygax to Temple of Elemental Evil ). If you want to discuss Gary Gygax as a person, please go to one of those thread to do it.

So, on to the meat of it.



I've noticed a thing where the name "Gary Gygax" is sometimes brought into conversations where (IMNSHO) it doesn't belong. There are even threads where I can mark the point that it goes from a reasonable conversation to one that I know will eventually be locked when someone drops the Gygax name in the thread. That bugs me. These are my personal guidelines for when one should or shouldn't name-drop Gary Gygax, why it bugs me, and how I try to do better.


When one should generally NOT invoke Gary Gygax's name:

  • When referring to an edition.
The history of D&D editions is complicated (I'll give you the Wikipedia link for reference: Editions of Dungeons & Dragons - Wikipedia) and even in modern times we don't always agree when something is a new edition and when it isn't. But one thing we should be able to agree on is that "Gary Gygax" isn't an edition of D&D. He was a game designer and author on multiple editions, but he was most critically a human being. And yet, unfortunately people say things like, "In 3e the game did this, but in Gary Gygax's D&D, the game did that".

Conflating an edition with a name takes something that could be objective and makes it personal. It changes the discussion from being about publications to something more intimate. In a bad way. Fans at large already take discussions about D&D editions too personally, and treating Gary Gygax like an edition only serves to make attacks on games more personal, and fuel the fires of edition wars.

The key is that the references should match. If we're talking about games in terms of Jeremy Crawford, Monte Cooke, or Frank Mentzer, then it makes perfect sense to refer to Gary Gygax. But if you're talking about 5e 2014, 3.0E, and AD&D, don't bring the Gygax name (or others) into it. Titles of editions (sans names) should match, the same way you match tenses in a sentence. Obviously, there are times when we must talk about editions, authors, and designers together. Especially in the early editions, where we commonly call out Holmes and Moldvay versions. And that's perfectly fine as long as it's consistent. But if you're talking about Pathfinder and don't use the name Jason Bulmahn, you shouldn't name-drop Gygax in any of your comparisons to D&D.

  • As a identifier for creative content in early D&D.
Yes, Gary was an author of OD&D, AD&D, and many other projects. But he was not an island. The obvious first argument to make is about the importance of Dave Arneson. But even beyond Arneson, Gary took input from everywhere. There's a reason so many people from the literal mail room at TSR went on to become big names in gaming history, and that's because Gary took ideas from anyone that was willing to contribute, ranging from other gaming professionals to his kids to random teenagers that happened to be in the area. This goes beyond personal connections, too, and Appendix N is just the start of it. From Tolkien to Roger Corman, Gygax took ideas from any media he could without being sued (and even a few where he did).

The critical idea here is that one should avoid talking about "Gary's cleric" or "Gary's Shield spell" because there generally is no version that is 100% Gary's. It was all a collaboration. Gary was not the sole creator of D&D, and that's not a bad thing. That's the backbone of D&D. Gary was a manager, a funnel, and a filter, and he did a great job at it. It's not belittling to Gary to deny him sole credit for every book that has his name on it, but it is belittling to everyone else in the process to give Gary credit for their works.

To avoid this, the general best practice is the name the source (i.e. book) that you're talking about, not the individual (and if Gary Gygax happens to have an author's credit on the book, you're free to feel smug about it). It's "The OD&D cleric" not "Gary's first cleric". The above "match tenses" rules should also be followed; only name Gary when you're referring to other authors by name. And you should only refer to Gary as an author when you're sure he's the only author, not just the only author on the cover.

  • When referring to an absolute, or to win an argument.
Gary Gygax was a lot of things. He was a dreamer, a father, a gamer, and an insurance underwriter. One of the main things he was not is consistent. This is not a bad thing, it is a human thing. People talk about things differently in their personal lives than their professional lives. People change over time. People sometimes have to back one horse to sell a product, even if it's not what they do in their personal games.

People often argue about "How Gary did this" or "Gary said it should be done like that". But most of the time when an argument hinges on "Gary Gygax said...", the simplest counter-argument is to find a quote of Gary Gygax contradicting it. This is not Gary's fault. The fault is trying to treat a human being like a legal text, and it ultimately does nothing to honor the man being put on the pedestal.

Simply remember that everything Gary Gygax said is only an opinion, just like everybody else's.


When you SHOULD invoke Gary's name:

  1. When reminiscing about times when you personally met and interacted with Gary Gygax.
  2. When talking about his (highly specific) contributions to a game/book, or when explicitly comparing one named author/designer/whatever to another named author/designer/whatever.
  3. When discussing his legacy, estate, and related topics such as GaryCon, the Gygax Memorial Fund, the "Wizard of the Lake" exhibit at the Geneva Lake Museum, or a trip to Lake Geneva.
  4. When discussing his non-D&D projects, such as Lejendary Adventures.
  5. (Unfortunately) When you want to troll on the internet. When you want to bait a D&D discussion into being personal rather than objective. When you want to end one discussion by injecting controversies or otherwise ensure the original topic is sidelined by discussions about Gary Gygax. Or when you just generally want to ramp up emotions to ensure you get a heated response.
These are my personal guidelines that I do my best to follow, and occasionally fail at. They are open to discussion and criticism. But I think if we can all recognize when some of these things (especially #5 above) are happening, then a few threads just might be a bit friendlier.

2nd Disclaimer: I am not a mod, I am not your mother, and I have no authority over anyone here. I have intentionally not quoted specific times I've seen things like this done on EN World to avoid making it personal. This is a discussion of things I have seen on the internet at large, not just here. I have intentionally avoided using the more inflammatory examples of issues associated with Gary Gygax to avoid turning this thread into yet another discussion of those topics. If you feel like this is a bunch of strawman arguments that don't apply to you, then they probably (hopefully?) don't apply to you. This post is roughly 10% disclaimer, and I have doubts that will be sufficient.
You're can say all this but you'll never stop me talking crap about Role-Playing Mastery, by a certain Gary Gygax!

I jest somewhat but that book was actually kind of pivotal for me, because even at 13 or so when I read it, it confirmed to me that, actually, maybe I did know better than adults/famous people about RPGs, and that definitely no-one should be taking the advice in this book! That helped me in a lot of ways because frankly, after the first, incredible person who taught me how to play D&D, I was reading and sometimes hearing a lot of outright bad DMing advice, whether in RPGs, from Sage Advice (god help us, never not a trashfire!), or from older DMs.

So maybe Gary didn't want me to think "Goddamn this book is stupid and packed with obviously terrible ideas!", but by doing so, he got me to trust my DMing instincts better, and to feel more confident in rejecting bad advice and bad ideas, whilst remaining open-minded that there was probably good advice out there (and indeed I increasingly started seeing that through the '90s, and it's skyrocketed post-2010).

Credit to Gary that even I think ten years later he was openly disavowing Role-Playing Mastery and saying he didn't run any games that way anymore!
 

Invoking the name of a (mostly) beloved founder is an Appeal to Authority. Citing the legacy of the early days is an Appeal to Tradition. Both are well known logical fallacies. So yeah, using the name of Gygax as a weapon in a debate is not a cool move. No contest from me.

It's the same as when anyone in a geek space pulls out "But actually, according to the lore..." Anything with enough history to have "lore" will have decades of material from dozens of creators, many of whom contradicted each other either unintentionally or very intentionally. There are retcons, new editions, and outright character assassination as a new creator slanders the old one's pet favorites. When "according to the lore" gets invoked, it's always highly selective in both sources and time periods to conform to the speaker's personal preferences. I feel like we need a new geek fallacy named for it.
Except, Gygax wasn't an authority. Authority grants the ability to give orders and enforce obedience.

He was a tabletop game designer ;)
 



Invoking the name of a (mostly) beloved founder is an Appeal to Authority.

Bruh. If you gonna be pedantic, ya gotta go all Latin on the plebes.

Freshman: Professor Steven Pinker said that the library is awesome! Do you know where the library is at?

Senior: First, we evaluate arguments qua arguments, and we never resort to argumentum ad verecundiam. Second, at Harvard (hah-vahd) we do not end our sentences with prepositions.

Freshman: Oh, I'm so sorry. Do you know where the library is at, a--h----?


As Abraham "Shakira's Booty Call" Lincoln once said, "Hips don't lie ALWAYS GO LATIN, MI ESE!"
 
Last edited:

You're can say all this but you'll never stop me talking crap about Role-Playing Mastery, by a certain Gary Gygax!

Counterpoint-

It's a lot better read than the Gord Novels.*


*Okay, the first one was almost cromulent. After that they barely aspire to be bad, yet aren't even bad enough to be entertaining. Gotta say I would love to see Chuck Tingle's take on the Gord series.

....Pounded By the Artifact of Evil: Turned Gay by the Existential Dread that Anthraxus the Oinodaemon Put the Horn in Horned Society
 

Bruh. If you gonna be pedantic, ya gotta go all Latin on the plebes.

Freshman: Professor Steven Pinker said that the library is awesome! Do you know where the library is at?

Senior: First, we evaluate arguments qua arguments, and we never resort to argumentum ad verecundiam. Second, at Harvard (hah-vahd) we do not end out sentences with prepositions.

Freshman: Oh, I'm so sorry. Do you know where the library is at, a--h----?


As Abraham "Shakira's Booty Call" Lincoln once said, "Hips don't lie ALWAYS GO LATIN, MI ESE!"

Barba non facit philosophum
 


That's one meaning of "authority". Merriam-Webster lists four, two others of which fit here. You are not being particularly clever.
That's the thing: I'm not trying to make an argument or be "clever". And if I want to quote the late Gary Gygax until my last breath, I will - and there's nothing you people can do about it.

He created and produced Dungeons & Dragons, and there's nothing you can do about it. Except complain, of course :LOL:
 

Remove ads

Top