D&D General I wish people would avoid name-dropping Gary Gygax

[Charlaquin]

Regardless of how flawed early D&D was, his greatest contribution to modern gaming has little to do with that. What is important is how he worked to get it to be the most recognizable TTRPG. Live him or hate him (and there are many valid reasons for both) he made that happen, did he have help, of course, but it is hard to say he wasn't the driving factor that made D&D the most recognizable game in TTRPG'S to this day. Heck it is hard to find a RPG video game that isn't influenced by D&D.

It just gets tiresome to deal with people bringing up his many short comings so often when his name is mentioned in a discussion when he has influenced so many games in so many mediums.

Plenty of people throughout history have made wonderful contributions while being severely flawed, can we not separate the good from the bad? Reddit is full of stories with far worse people doing far worse things in the TTRPG space than Gygax did, and they have contributed far less to the gaming community.

That’s not what’s happening here though…

 

[Theory of Games]

This is classic censorship.

"Oh yeah, you can talk about this thing, just not THAT PART of this thing"

Why can't I talk about THAT PART? Who does it harm? What law am I violating?

 

[Mannahnin]

This is classic censorship.

"Oh yeah, you can talk about this thing, just not THAT PART of this thing"

How is it censorship to express an opinion, and explicitly say "I'm not an authority, I can't enforce this over you"?

Why can't I talk about THAT PART? Who does it harm? What law am I violating?

Maybe re-read the OP? No laws were referenced. I thought he explained his reasoning pretty well for how he'd prefer the name not be used and how he thinks it negatively impacts discussions.

D&D General Thread 'I wish people would avoid name-dropping Gary Gygax'

Feb 25, 2025

Disclaimer: This is not a thread about Gary Gygax, directly. This is a thread about the name, and the uses and abuses thereof. It is not about what you or I think about Gary Gygax as a person or as a game designer. It is not a thread about whether Gary was racist, sexist, theist, numismatic, thespian, smelled good, or his skills as a cobbler. It is a thread about his celebrity, para-social relationships, and how D&D fans act as stewards of his legacy.

I respect and care about Gary Gygax a lot. I've been on EN World since he was a fellow poster. I'm a big fan of history and...

• Deset Gled
• Replies: 142
• Forum: *Dungeons & Dragons

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[Theory of Games]

How is it censorship to express an opinion, and explicitly say "I'm not an authority, I can't enforce this over you"?



Maybe re-read the OP? No laws were referenced. I thought he explained his reasoning pretty well for how he'd prefer the name not be used and how he thinks it negatively impacts discussions.

D&D General Thread 'I wish people would avoid name-dropping Gary Gygax'

Feb 25, 2025

Disclaimer: This is not a thread about Gary Gygax, directly. This is a thread about the name, and the uses and abuses thereof. It is not about what you or I think about Gary Gygax as a person or as a game designer. It is not a thread about whether Gary was racist, sexist, theist, numismatic, thespian, smelled good, or his skills as a cobbler. It is a thread about his celebrity, para-social relationships, and how D&D fans act as stewards of his legacy.

I respect and care about Gary Gygax a lot. I've been on EN World since he was a fellow poster. I'm a big fan of history and...

• Deset Gled
• Replies: 142
• Forum: *Dungeons & Dragons

• 
• 

Yeah but, this is how institutionalized censorship begins: with somebody's opinion. I've seen entire forums transformed based on the opinions of a few. And not in a good way. If someone wants to name-drop a game designer, I don't see the problem. But, telling people what they can discuss (outside of site ToS) IS a problem.

 

[Mannahnin]

Yeah but, this is how institutionalized censorship begins: with somebody's opinion. I've seen entire forums transformed based on the opinions of a few. And not in a good way. If someone wants to name-drop a game designer, I don't see the problem. But, telling people what they can discuss (outside of site ToS) IS a problem.

Is anyone doing that latter thing? Can you quote them if so?

I think members caring enough about the forum to say "Hey, I've noticed what looks like a negative pattern which detracts from some discussions; can we maybe avoid that?" is a good thing. We don't all have to agree with his conclusions, but I think he thoughtfully raised some interesting points.

I don't think it's helpful to evoke the specter of institutional censorship to shout down opinions we don't like or condemn a criticism of a behavior because you think it applies to you.

 

[Theory of Games]

Is anyone doing that latter thing? Can you quote them if so?

I think members caring enough about the forum to say "Hey, I've noticed what looks like a negative pattern which detracts from some discussions; can we maybe avoid that?" is a good thing. We don't all have to agree with his conclusions, but I think he thoughtfully raised some interesting points.

I don't think it's helpful to evoke the specter of institutional censorship to shout down opinions we don't like or condemn any form of criticism of a thing we like.

And I don't think it's helpful when someone posts:

When one should generally NOT invoke Gary Gygax's name:

 

[Charlaquin]

This is classic censorship.

"Oh yeah, you can talk about this thing, just not THAT PART of this thing"

Why can't I talk about THAT PART? Who does it harm? What law am I violating?

No, it’s not censorship, it’s socialization. No one is censoring you, some of your peers are suggesting that people conduct certain discussions in a different way. It’s entirely up to you whether or not to do as they suggest, and entirely up to them how they respond to your choice to do or not do as they suggest. That’s just how social interaction works, nothing about it has anything to do with censorship.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

I don't think it's helpful to evoke the specter of institutional censorship to shout down opinions we don't like or condemn any form of criticism of a thing we like.

I'll just leave this here:

 

[Charlaquin]

And I don't think it's helpful when someone posts:

When one should generally NOT invoke Gary Gygax's name:

And guess what? You’re allowed to express that opinion, and others are allowed to agree or disagree with it, as they see fit. No censorship is occurring whatsoever.

 

[Theory of Games]

No, it’s not censorship, it’s socialization. No one is censoring you, some of your peers are suggesting that people conduct certain discussions in a different way. It’s entirely up to you whether or not to do as they suggest, and entirely up to them how they respond to your choice to do or not do as they suggest. That’s just how social interaction works, nothing about it has anything to do with censorship.

My concern is mostly how opinion can shape forum policy. As I posted above, I've seen it happen in very bad ways, to the point where people get banned from sites not because they violated ToS, but because they posted an unpopular opinion.