Idea: Revised Commoner

[Psyckosama]

To be honest, the commoner class sucks. It also makes absoutly no sense. I can not logically see a farmer who is as out of shape and as piss-poor a fighter as a bookish wizard who spends all his time in a poorly lit room reading.

In a midieval setting like D&D 99.9% of Commoners are farmers.

Useally Farmers work all day long in a field doing back breaking labor, when it gets dark they oft retreat to a local tavern and like anyone else they'll probelly fight (for fun or in anger)

My recomended chjangers are as follows:

1) Hit dice d8 (to show that they WORK for a living)
2) BAB to 2/3 (to shot that while they are not profresionals, the can fight... atleast at a reasonable level)
3) Make Fort a good save. (They do lots of constant physical labor. They need it.)
4) Weapon prof in 2 non-exotic, non simple weapons (Archery is VERY common for hunting, Maybe the towns people use Kama's for defence, or maybe some one figured out how to use grandpa's long sword)

 

[Shalewind]

In a midieval setting like D&D 99.9% of Commoners are farmers.

Depends on your setting, but close enough.

Useally Farmers work all day long in a field doing back breaking labor, when it gets dark they oft retreat to a local tavern and like anyone else they'll probelly fight (for fun or in anger)

Actually, they probably are serfs, spend the entire day and night working and barly get time to rest or take time off. When they do, they spend it with the family. Over 60% of your farmers will not live within a mile of a tavern. But, I agree with your core point that they should be a bit tougher.

1) Hit dice d8 (to show that they WORK for a living)

Hit points are a measure of your ability to avoid damage in combat. They are an abstraction. Wizards are an adventuring class and they see combat. A sword through the chest will kill any man equally. Fighters know best how to avoid that, they get the 1d10. Barbarians are tough AND they know how to do that, they get a 1d12. I think a 1d6 for commoners is fair, but if they live in a world where they defend their crops from bandits and kolbolds, sure, 1d8 sounds fair too.

2) BAB to 2/3 (to shot that while they are not profresionals, the can fight... atleast at a reasonable level)

Same answer as above.

3) Make Fort a good save. (They do lots of constant physical labor. They need it.)

This I agree with 100%

4) Weapon prof in 2 non-exotic, non simple weapons (Archery is VERY common for hunting, Maybe the towns people use Kama's for defence, or maybe some one figured out how to use grandpa's long sword)

Also a pretty good idea. I'd limit the list based on area though.

These are all very good ideas, especially if you are going to have a hero take a level in commoner to show "from humble origins". In a war torn land, or where the living is tough, I think these commoners would be a good change. If they live in magicville, where the sun is nice and warm, the rain is gentle, and the good king watches over them, stick with the core ones. My two cents, good ideas and backup.

 

[Technik4]

I disagree

"1) Hit dice d8 (to show that they WORK for a living)
2) BAB to 2/3 (to shot that while they are not profresionals, the can fight... atleast at a reasonable level)
3) Make Fort a good save. (They do lots of constant physical labor. They need it.)
4) Weapon prof in 2 non-exotic, non simple weapons (Archery is VERY common for hunting, Maybe the towns people use Kama's for defence, or maybe some one figured out how to use grandpa's long sword)"

1) So a commoner is tougher than a rogue, as tough (and adept at dodging blows) as a monk, and equally hardy as a cleric. Hell no. Commoners by definition avoid danger. They dont WANT to adventure, they dont WANT their life to be threatened. When these things do happen, they largely freak out. They might make a wound worse than it is by not rolling with the correct way, or by being totally unprepared for what is coming.

The "commoner" who farms and fights bandits by day sounds more like the warrior, with some farming skills.

2) I dont think you understand BAB very well. Fighters live and die by their weapons, as do rangers, barbarians, and paladins. There are few if any sessions which these characters will not need to roll a d20 to hit at some point, which will use their BAB. It is their livelihood. Clerics, rogues, monks, and others with 2/3 BAB have many more skills and/or "powers" at their disposal. BAB is still very important, but they spend a considerable amount of time doing other things, or in the case of the monk, doing EVERYTHING. Clerics cast spells, rogues hide and go for sneak attacks, monks run around the battlefield helping where possible. A session may pass without them making an attack roll, but it is not the norm. Wizards and sorcerors are scholars and shamans. They conduct magic through themselves, not some divine power. A wizard or sorc rarely makes an attack roll at low levels, and if they do, its usually for a spell. Even at high levels, they are better suited to fling spells than swing swords, but they have picked up on basic tactics through observation and getting knocked around.

A commoner who hunts often may be a multi-classed commoner/warrior, a commoner who is particularly good at a trade may be a commoner/expert (or straight expert), a commoner who is utterly common, frightened of things in the dark, and working his butt off everyday of his life has little proficiency with said weapons. This doesnt mean they couldnt swing grandpa's sword around, they just wouldnt hit much (hence the -4 penalty). They could take Martial Weapon Proficiency - Longsword if they practiced a lot, but even then they wouldnt make for much of a combatant.

3) Do you think a farmer would be any better at resisting poison than someone who binds books or weaves baskets? If they are, they are an exceptional commoner and could take "Great Fortitude". Commoners largely live their lives trying to avoid anything in D&D that would CAUSE such a save. When people do make such saves, it is usually because of their inherent attributes (a commoner with a high dexterity may not fall to his death, he may even have "lightning reflexes", regardless he will do his best to avoid such occurences from happening again, or he will begin to take PC classes because the thrill stirred something inside of him).

4) A commoner is proficient with one simple weapon. Maybe a bully knows how to use a dagger, a sheep herder keeps a quarterstaff or a shortspear to fight off wolves, etc. A farmer might use a scythe to cut down wheat, but its a little different when you are using it to fight a person (hence the -4 non-proficient penalty). A farmer on the frontier may have warrior levels or may have devoted his feats to more PCish feats, like martial weapon proficiency or great fortitude.

DMG pg 38 "...commoners usually have no desire to live the wandering, dangerous life of an adventurer and possess none of the skills needed to undertake the challenges adventurers must face."

My emphasis is on "usually", in some cases they go on to become PCs. Other emphasis "none". Not one of the skills (BAB, HD, Weapon Proficiencies, or saving throws).

In closing, from the same page in DMG, "Player characters should not be commoners, since commoners make poor adventurers. Instead , the commoner class should be reserved for everyone who does not qualify for any other class."

The commoner is an important aspect of d&d, it represents the people that do the work adventurers rejected. Dont try and make them heroes against monsters, they are already heroes of another sort.

Technik

 

[Chacal]

The life of a rural commoner is a tough one and I think they deserve D6 hit points and a good Fort save.
I tend to adequate D4 HD with bookish/avoid pain at all costs.
While I think that rural commoners would like to avoid pain, they actually are used to endure it.

I disagree with the BAB and extra feats, for already stated reasons.
If a commoner hunts, then he just has to use its 1st level feat for that.

I don't know what to do with town commoners that don't do heavy work, they're certainly not all experts.


Chacal

 

[Tonguez]

Personally I think the concept of a 'Commoner' class is redundant and can be entirely dropped. If the PCs need to interact with Dave the Yokel then they will -I'm not wasting my time writing his stats and giving him a detailed background story. If they want to attack and kill Dave the Yokel he will have HP 1 and BAb -4 (non-proficient)

Technik has pretty much covered the point that once a Commoner starts 'doing stuff' that goes beyond the drudgery of breaking your back to plough a feild, collecting dry dung to fuel the fire and using what limited fort you might have to overcome this years plague the NPC has acquired some other class be it Expert or Warrior or...

Farmers are Experts, they hire (or have/own) Commoners to work as labourers in the fields.
Derrick the Blacksmith and head of the town militia is an Expert/Warrior
Chief Begora of Clan Magob is a Warrior/Aristocrat, and his sister Maeb is an Adept.

- ie NO COMMONERS REQUIRED

Also
Medieval Commoners (ie Serfs) weren't healthy and robust and wouldn't have good fort. They were often sickly and suffered from multiple diseases and vermin infestations. Childbirth was life threatening and infant mortality high.

 

[Stalker0]

I think WOTC made a mistake in making all its iconic characters (at least the ones it shows its players) all straight classes because largely many of the types of people you see in the world aren't a straight character. For instance, many people think Aragorn is more of a ranger/fighter than a straight ranger.

As has been mentioned, the hardy commoner is often a commoner/expert or commoner/warrior. If you want to beef up the class, you could give the commoner some bonus feats like toughness or great fortitude. 3 hps can mean the different between an orc slicing you down in one shot and you actually living through one blow. That's a lot for Joe Shmo. Feats like this will make the commoner a bit tougher, but not a lot tougher. A commoner whose done labor for 15 years isn't going to be that much tougher than a person whose done it for 10. Hence, they shouldn't gain that many more hps when they advance a level.

 

[Drawmack]

IMC anyone who plys a trade is an expert.

Commoner is saved mostly for children and the insane. There are a few commoners running around but they are mostly beggars and urchins.

Expert is very generic here are some examples from my campaign.

Potter, Artist, Sculptor, Dancer, Barmaid, Bar Keep, Minstrel, Cook, Playwrite, Shop Keep, Smith, Farmer, Teacher, Prostitute, etc.


As I said anyone with a trade is an expert because they have choose to specialize in something. The commoner is well common. They specialize in nothing they usually have no job and no salable skills.

I've got an idea, I'm going to start a thread for expert templates tonight when I get home, I bet we get some really cool things working in that.

One thing that I do though is I give locality bonuses for you place or origin. Maybe everyone in that town must learn to speak orc and fight with a long sword because the area is simply infested with orcs then you get those things as well but they are extras and not part of a class. I look at it like you get racial stuff, you get class stuff and you get point of origin stuff.

 

[MarauderX]

I agree with Technik's points, and mostly it is how the term "commoner" is interpretted. It could be a farmer, blacksmith, prositute, whatever, but skilled or not, the person is still a "commoner." A beggar or child might only have 1-2 HP, versus the meaty butcher who may have 8 HP and weapon finesse with a cleaver. The local merchant might be an elderly commoner with only 3 HP, but with an appraise skill of 10, as it really depends on the campaign setting and interpretation.

I interpret the "commoner" as the average or below average person, not physically or mentally fit to keep up with adventurers that face battle and other hazards. Beefing up a hardy worker is one thing, but making an average Joe as tough as the above-average adventurer? Perhaps you are thinking of an army that has travelled home to retire.