Ideas for "Thief" (video game) style campaign

[Asmor]

I'm gonna be making a campaign that is inspired largely by Thief: Deadly Shadows. For those who don't know of it, you play Garrett, a master thief, and skulk around in shadows. You avoid guards, knock them in the back of the neck with a blackjack as neccessary, and combat is really a last resort.

Basically, I'm gonna have all my players be rogues. There's only 3 of 'em, so I figure they'll each be able to specialize in something. They'll be mercenaries for hire, possibly running their own "business" or possibly working for someone else, I haven't decided.

I'm looking for ideas on how to make the game interesting. One thing I'm definitely taking from Thief is water arrows, arrows with packets of water at the end that are used to put out torches and such.

So obviously I'm gonna need to brush up on traps (finally get to use Traps & Treachery!) and make up a lot of maps and such. Does anyone have ideas for interesting items they might have at their disposal, a la the water arrow mentioned above, or ideas for missions besides the obvious "Sneak into place X and steal item Y" or "Sneak into place X and assassinate person Y?"

Also, I'd like suggestions on how I can allow them to advance and still keep the game realistic and difficult. It won't take long for them to easily be able to trample over any guard in a hand-to-hand fight, and it doesn't make a lot of sense if the guards they face scale up in power as they do. I plan to keep it low on magic (for them, at least...), but don't really know what else. There's not gonna be any moral reason for them to avoid killing people, and there's not much of a legal reason to since by their very nature they're gonna be hunted anyways.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Also, I'd like suggestions on how I can allow them to advance and still keep the game realistic and difficult. It won't take long for them to easily be able to trample over any guard in a hand-to-hand fight, and it doesn't make a lot of sense if the guards they face scale up in power as they do.

Sure it does - different places spend different amounts on security. Mr level 20 fighter is an expensive guard, as are any number of magical traps, or horrible creatures. If your players want to keep going after the petty stuff, then fine, they'll continue to thrash the opposition. If they want to go after the good stuff, they'll need to hit the hard targets.

 

[Mark Plemmons]

I'm gonna be making a campaign that is inspired largely by Thief: Deadly Shadows. For those who don't know of it, you play Garrett, a master thief, and skulk around in shadows. You avoid guards, knock them in the back of the neck with a blackjack as neccessary, and combat is really a last resort.

Neat idea. I loved the original Thief game. Never played the sequel(s), though.

 

[Asmor]

Neat idea. I loved the original Thief game. Never played the sequel(s), though.

Not generally a fan of such games, or at least I thought I wasn't considering how much I disliked the much-acclaimed Metal Gear Solid, but playing Thief: Deadly Shadows is actually quite interesting and engaging.

My only gripe is that, after spending an hour skulking about the castle that made up level two, avoiding fights as much as possible and such, I ended up dying in front of a fire place in a totally clear area, keeling over just as I realized I was taking fire damage. I hadn't figured out how to save yet, either. Oi.

 

[takyris]

I always tried to play "Never Seen, Never Heard", and I always ended up as some kind of Ninja Commando, wandering the house shouting, "I know somebody's still alive, dangit! I need one more golden candlestick, and I'm not leaving until I get it!!!"

But, that said, as far as a campaign like this goes, very cool. A couple suggestions:

1) Are you doing D&D? Are you thinking of any Variant rules? Offhand, just going by the stuff in Unearthed Arcana, I could imagine that Complex Skill checks, Class-Based Defense, and maybe VP/WP might make the game both friendiler and more challenging for the rogue PCs.

2) Even if you don't use Complex Skill Checks to make truly difficult locks or long and involved traps, you'll want to up the skill factor. In a normal game, making the dungeon means plunking down most of the monsters and adding a few class levels to the minotaur. Here, you're going to want to keep note of which areas have enough shadows to hide in, what the Move Silently modifier of the area might be (-8 for very squeaky floorboards in a room with lots of echoes, or +4 for a sound-dampening room with a nice plush carpet), what the DC of the average door lock, trunk lock, and safe-lock might be, and so forth. You might want to make some locks that require specific picks, with a search check to determine which pick to use (not terribly difficult, but it might take time that the guy doesn't have). Be prepared for PCs who want to do difficult stuff. What's the spot DC if your heroes are doing that "hanging from the ceiling right over the guards' heads" thing while the guards walk by underneath? Also be ready to map guard movements -- that's huge in the Thief games. When the guards are in the right position, you can get just about anywhere. And when you guess wrong, you've got a lot of people with swords shouting "Taffer!"

3) What level of magic are you thinking? Even if they don't have a lot of wizard levels, a wand and some Use Magic Device could turn your game's flavor on its head. "Yes, and now... er, you've greased the room and magic-missiled the guards. Okay. Right. Hey, I guess you can add Sneak Attack damage with a scorching ray."

4) As a d20 Modern pusher, I must make the obligatory suggestion that you consider using it as an alternate rules system. Smart/Fast heroes can work wonders, and don't automatically become the combat monsters that a straight-class rogue with the element of surprise will become. Also, they don't require magic. There, I've said it. You can ignore me. Spycraft would also be good, from what I've heard, although you may have to play with equipment more -- with d20M, you can pretty much take D&D equipment and d20M rules, minus the Computer Use skills and maybe with the D&D riding feats added back in, if your players would be using that.

Anyway, very fun idea! Can't wait to hear how it goes!

 

[feydras]

You might consider checking out the Iron Kingdoms setting by Privateer Press. The setting in Thief is very similar to Iron Kingdoms. In the IK magic items are less common and often mixed with mechanika that requires charges, alchemical solutions or bizarre components. Steam powered golemlike creations that are controlled by magical/mechanika cortexes (brains) are a big part of the setting's flavor. The setting is firmly ingrained in fantasy but has a gritty, industrial feel. They have thier own take on firearms that are intentionally non-historical but still believeable. Guns are well balanced to make sure they don't make other weapons obsolete. The setting does a good job of controlling the more fantastical and magical elements of D&D without eliminating them. I like this approach because it allows skills and abilities of classes to shine. What i mean is why put a bunch of ranks into hide when you can just walk to your corner magic shop and buy a ring of invisibility?

The RPG side of the Iron Kingdoms setting is currently presented only in three modules (the Witchfire Trilogy), a monster book called the Monstronomicon, and a character primer called Lock & Load. The Iron Kingdoms Campaign Guide which will be out this or next month looks fantastic. Privateer Press is known for very high quality, creative products. Despite my gushing, i don't work for them, i'm just an rabid fan, as are most who've explored the setting.

- Feydras

 

[Bauglir]

In terms of advancement you could take some pointers from the Thief game itself.

The later levels provided increased challenge by providing tougher and/or supernatural foes within the context of its own setting.

For example have the party tasked to raid a Builder stronghold, or have some storyline linked to the Trickster's creatures in some way. Zombies (advanced zombies) will certainly present a challenge to a party of rogues.

 

[Klaus]

One word:

Lankhmar.

It's the city that spawned all RPG fantasy cities (specially Greyhawk). It has the original Thieve's Guild (not to mention the Slayers' Brotherhood). And it's the stomping ground of the two most famous rogues in fantasy: Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser.

Also, check out the Thievery 101 modules by Wyvern's Claw Design.

 

[The Mad Kaiser]

My best advice is to read the "Thieves' World" series of books by Robert Asprin (and various other popular authors). Also try to find some of the old Thieves' World modules and sourcebooks by FASA (1980's!). The interior art is always REPUGNANT, but the adventures are well-done.

 

[Asmor]

1) Are you doing D&D? Are you thinking of any Variant rules? Offhand, just going by the stuff in Unearthed Arcana, I could imagine that Complex Skill checks, Class-Based Defense, and maybe VP/WP might make the game both friendiler and more challenging for the rogue PCs.

I'm definitely gonna use some custom rules. I considered the VP/WP system, but instead I think I'll go with constitution=hit points, which never increase. It'll be a good boost to the hit points at the low level, while at higher levels it will become a large hindrance. Shouldn't be too bad with low magic, though. I'll have to review the complex skill checks, but most likely I will be using them. I definitely want locks and traps and such to be more involved than a simple D20.

2) Even if you don't use Complex Skill Checks to make truly difficult locks or long and involved traps, you'll want to up the skill factor. In a normal game, making the dungeon means plunking down most of the monsters and adding a few class levels to the minotaur. Here, you're going to want to keep note of which areas have enough shadows to hide in, what the Move Silently modifier of the area might be (-8 for very squeaky floorboards in a room with lots of echoes, or +4 for a sound-dampening room with a nice plush carpet), what the DC of the average door lock, trunk lock, and safe-lock might be, and so forth. You might want to make some locks that require specific picks, with a search check to determine which pick to use (not terribly difficult, but it might take time that the guy doesn't have). Be prepared for PCs who want to do difficult stuff. What's the spot DC if your heroes are doing that "hanging from the ceiling right over the guards' heads" thing while the guards walk by underneath? Also be ready to map guard movements -- that's huge in the Thief games. When the guards are in the right position, you can get just about anywhere. And when you guess wrong, you've got a lot of people with swords shouting "Taffer!"

Definitely.

3) What level of magic are you thinking? Even if they don't have a lot of wizard levels, a wand and some Use Magic Device could turn your game's flavor on its head. "Yes, and now... er, you've greased the room and magic-missiled the guards. Okay. Right. Hey, I guess you can add Sneak Attack damage with a scorching ray."

Very low. They're not gonna have any at all, except maybe a couple enchanted arrows and something to see in the dark. I'll probably have some of the later missions have magic detectors that can detect magic items, so they'll have to leave anything they manage to get away with at home.

4) As a d20 Modern pusher, I must make the obligatory suggestion that you consider using it as an alternate rules system. Smart/Fast heroes can work wonders, and don't automatically become the combat monsters that a straight-class rogue with the element of surprise will become. Also, they don't require magic. There, I've said it. You can ignore me. Spycraft would also be good, from what I've heard, although you may have to play with equipment more -- with d20M, you can pretty much take D&D equipment and d20M rules, minus the Computer Use skills and maybe with the D&D riding feats added back in, if your players would be using that.

Preaching to the converted, friend, preaching to the converted. I absolutely -love- the D20 modern base classes. Hadn't thought of taking classes from it into D&D, though. I'll definitely consider that...