Ideas on balancing the cleric, druid, sorcerer and wizard classes...

[Michael Morris]

Ideas on balancing the cleric, druid, sorcerer and wizard classes without using their spell lists.

Basically, I'm pondering an open spell system in which, theoretically, any character can use any spell (though it's structured so that no one character can use all the spells at the same time, reinforcing teamwork). The problem is that the cleric, wizard, sorcerer and druid classes aren't balanced against each other if they're allowed to have the same list. The cleric is WAY more powerful in non-spell areas than the wizard.

I'd like to bring the cleric and druid down to the sorcerer and wizard's level of power.

BTW, the bard, ranger and paladin will be replaced with their prestige class variants in UA, so they need not be considered in this calculation.

Ok, here are some of my initial ideas. Note I'm aiming for a minimum of changes to the class. My current idea is to delay their spellcasting progression one or maybe even 2 levels, but other ideas are welcome.

 

[Li Shenron]

That sounds like a challenge!

I'll toss in my surface ideas as well, although you probably won't like them very much...

1) Clerics and druids will only know a limited number of spells, just like the arcane casters do. To be decided if it is better that they learn spells as a Wizard (2 new per level + chance of more spells from scrolls) or a Sorcerer (fixed table).
This is quite a necessary limitation if there's a unified spells list...

2) Make ASF work the same for all casters, either they all suffer from it or there is no ASF for anyone.

Even with both of these, clerics and druids still have the edge because of better BAB, HD, proficiencies and special abilities. It would be easier to power-up the arcane casters, but that would become unfair to all the non-spellcasting classes, so I suppose we can only take something away from the divine... which is however difficult: reducing spellcasting (like you suggest) is hard to balance; reducing special abilities or basic stats will result in making clerics/druids almost identical to wizards, because the only things a wiz has better are spells+bonus feats+specialization.

I would probably go the latter way, and reduce some of the following:

BAB
HD
ST
proficiencies
domains
druid's skills
druid's special features

Which ones would you never want to reduce?

 

[Stormborn]

Flavor wise what are the distinctions between each class? Seems like:
Wizard - powers gained through study
Sorcerer - powers gained through blood
Cleric - powers granted by gods
Druid - powers gained through devotion to nature

I agree with going with the Wizard/Sorcerer BAB and Saves (varied for diff. classes) as a start. How about making ASF appicable only when not profficent, and not have any of them profficent to begin with. If any of them want armor then they can take feats, with possible religios restirctions for the Druid and Cleric for the sake of flavor, but nothing that would really harm them in the long run in terms of balance

Have Wizards and Cleric use the Wizards spells known and spells per day list.
Sorcerer use as given.
Druids become spontaneous casters as well, based on an inborn awareness of thier place in the world. As sorcerers, but give them one less spell known and spell per day at each level.

From there we are left with special abilites. How about making the key difference the kinds of special abilties they get?
1st Level:
Wiz - Brew Potion
Sor - Escew Materials
Clr- Spontaneous Casting: Heal or Harm
Drd - Anture Sense and Wild Empathy
2nd Level:
Wiz - Summon Familiar
Sor - Summon Familar or +3 Bonus to Spellcraft checks
Clr - Turn Undead
Drd -Animal Companion

At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels they each get a bonus feat or special ability drawn from a class list:
Wiz: Item Creation and Metamagic
Sor: Metamagic and maybe some thing unique (pleanty of threads on that)
Clr: Improved Turnign, Domain Abilites, some MEtamagic
Drd: WildShape abilites taken in feat trees.

That just off the top of my head. I'm sure it needs work.

 

[spider_minion]

Or you could beef up wizards and sorcerers. Since you have Unearthed Arcana, you could do the following:

Wizards go by the Specialist Wizards Variant. They choose a school to specialize in, and gain the abilities listed in the book, but suffer none of the usual drawbacks for specializing.

Sorcerers get a free intermediate bloodline.

These also help to differentiate individual wizards and sorcerers apart from each other.

 

[The Great Bear King]

Like using Domains to determine base spells instead of bonus spells (if this sounds to much like the Second edition Sphere of Influnce rules, bare with me, please).

Revised Healing Domain:
Level 0-Cure Minor Wounds
Level 1-Cure Light Wounds
Level 2-Cure Moderate Wounds, Delay Poison,
Lesser Restoration, Remove Paralysis
Level 3-Cure Serious Wounds
Level 4-Cure Critical Wounds, Neutralize Poison, Restoration
Level 5-Healing Circle, Raise Dead
Level 6-Heal
Level 7-Greater Restoration, Regenerate, Resurrection
Level 8-Mass Heal
Level 9-True Resurrection

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Check out the Sword Sorcery book Advanced Players Guide. You can download the preview here.

 

[Turanil]

Arcana Unearthed by Monte Cook has a system of spellcasting without distinction between arcane and divine magic. There are several spellcasting classes, but no classes seen as specifically a "priest" (although Greenbond comes close to it). Those who want to be a priest take a feat that gives social advantages geared at emphasizing their PC is a priest.

Otherwise, concerning your question, my suggestion would be:

1) Sorcerers disappear. Wizards remain the same BUT cast their spells as sorcerers do as far as no preparation is required.
2) Clerics loose spontaneous casting and domain spells. Their spells MUST BE prepared, as they are imparted into their mind by their deity at the time of prayer.

The idea is that wizard really know how to use magic, while priests really don't but get spells from their deity to cast.