Identify magic effect makes no sense as written.

[Evenglare]

I have a thread going at the wizards forums, however maybe some of you can give me some insight, because im not seeing it. Ill post a couple of my posts here.

So i was looking at the skills, and the arcana skill identifies magical effects that are NOT powers, OR magic items or rituals. What else does that leave? It even gives you the DC which is 20 + 1/2 level.

But level of what? I dont understand at all.

looking more closely .... we get some insight which adds even more confusion.

Identify conjuration or zone. DC 15 + 1/2 the POWER's level.

We know what level a power is.

Identify Ritual . DC 20 + 1/2 the ritual's level .

Rituals also have a level as well.

Identify Magical Effect . DC 20 + 1/2 effect's level

We have no idea what level an effect is and there are no rules as such. But according to our previous skill checks, we DO know what level a power is , and a ritual is . This makes no sense how they are portraying it in the book. It doesnt flow well. This should have been a side bar or something. But i digress, next we also have a rule.

Sense the presense of magic. DC 20+1/2 the level of a magic item, power , ritual, or magical phenomenon within range.

Again obviously these bolded things have levels, and we know where in the book to look for or atleast model a level from. Where though is a magical phenomenon or effect? It doesnt make sense unless its tucked away in the DMG and i simply missed it.

 

[Obryn]

Identify Magical Effect . DC 20 + 1/2 effect's level

We have no idea what level an effect is and there are no rules as such. But according to our previous skill checks, we DO know what level a power is , and a ritual is . This makes no sense how they are portraying it in the book. It doesnt flow well. This should have been a side bar or something. But i digress, next we also have a rule.

You're over-thinking this. A magical effect has to have been created by something - either a power or a creature. If it was a power, use the power's level. If you don't have a level, use the creature who made it's level.

-O

 

[Evenglare]

Well, the creature thing is on the right track . But ID magical effect explicitly says, the effect couldnt have been created by a magic item, power , or ritual.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Perhaps it is there to handle all the non standard magic effects that the DM designs into his adventure?

Like the final room of the quest for 5th level adventurers has a magic circle that reanimates undead which are slain; call it an 8th level magical effect which can be broken under certain conditions. Done.

 

[Harr]

As someone told you over at the WotC thread, the answer is simply that you assign the level to the effect that you need it to have.

A "magic effect" is anything not covered between powers, rituals, etc. Surely if you've ever actually DM'd a game you MUST have come across some of these. A magical mirror that looks at a faraway place. A well where people make wishes. A talking statue that guards a passage and asks riddles.

If the party becomes suspicious of, say, the statue and wants to identify it before it has a chance to speak. You need a grade of difficulty for that. So you assign a level that you think will make it hard/easy enough as you need it to be. That's it.

 

[Evenglare]

Ah, okay , but why 8th level ? Why not 6, or 7, or 9th ? What exactly made you say 8th. And dont get me wrong, i love winging it. But for 1/2 level there shoudl be some sort of guidelines for the effect. It would have just said DC set by DM base of 20.

 

[mattdm]

A "magic effect" is anything not covered between powers, rituals, etc. Surely if you've ever actually DM'd a game you MUST have come across some of these. A magical mirror that looks at a faraway place. A well where people make wishes. A talking statue that guards a passage and asks riddles.

Some people — and I'm not naming names, but I am casting a sideways glance at rec.games.frp.dnd — believe that in 3E, the DM must model any such effects using existing spells (or new spells that fit the power level of existing spells and which PCs could learn if they discovered them) or the magic item creation rules (including level and spell prereqs).

 

[Evenglare]

Okay, going deeper into the rabbit hole... as it were . I have noticed that Insight also makes use of the effects level. Now im just trying to find ANYTHING on magical effects or anything like that and they seem to be non existant in any sort of book . Like, they just simply dont mention anything thats a magical effect or anythign like that anywhere. Not even examples of your magical mirror , or a magical tree . Nothing that hasnt been created with out the use of powers or rituals or magic items.

The closest thing ive found is "fantastic terrain" . But nothing on even creating magical effects or even a mention of them.

 

[Obryn]

Again, you're overthinking it.

Make something up. There's no hard and fast guidelines. If you want, compare the effect against other stuff in the DMG - traps and the like. Alternately, as a guideline, use the PCs' level. Weak effect? Make it their level or below. Strong effect? Make it above their level. Godlike effect? 25+.

You won't break anything by assigning a skewed level to random magic effects.

Alternately, don't make something up in advance. See how the roll turns out if/when a character actually tries to do it.

-O

 

[Evenglare]

I dont know it still doesnt set right with me. It would have said DC set by DM. It says that in other skills such as intimidate. But it just doesnt mention ANYTHING about any of it. I find it very poorly written, if infact thats what they did want you to do . There isnt even anything saying anything about scaling it, and just refrencing other powers.

Take it like this. You are brand new to D&D. You take a look at that skill, you have no access to the internet, and this whole roleplaying thing is completely new, and you really want to follow the rules. What do you do ? They obviously wrote that specific DC level in refrence to something. If its just your encounter level why doesnt it say? If its just in refrence to power, where does it tell you this ? I could go on and on.