Mathew_Freeman
Adventurer
Actually I'd say that the high level fighter doesn't have a body part touching his weapon at all times...he doesn't need to. 
Identifying a high-level character
- Thread starter Quasqueton
- Start date
Cygnus
First Post
I would say that there must be a way of "sensing" something's "level" because when using the magic jar spell, the caster is able to sense HD/Level diffeerences of 4. That means that s/he could say that one npc was 4 or more "units" more powerful than another npc. That seems to imply that there is some sort of inherent difference between the npcs, so perhaps some spell that could detect auras might be able to enable the caster to determine relative aura brightnesses.
Or whatever...
Or whatever...
gtJormungand
First Post
For the wizard, you could use the spell Arcane Sight, which IIRC lets the caster know the highest level arcane spell that the people in his vision can cast is.
Kilmore
First Post
Another thing to consider is the fact that characters that have achieved a pretty high level are going to attain a fair amount of fame, depending on their exploits.
Say you are in a tavern in Daggerdale in the Forgotten Realms when Manshoon walks in. Are most people going to think "Hmm, that looks like a powerful character, probably a wizard." or "There goes a fellow that seems confident and has probably seen things that I could never imagine."
I don't think so. They're going to think "Ooohh gods! It's @#%& Manshoon!! Oh, please Lathander and all other gods of what's good and right, let me get the hells out of here and leave with my life!"
An extreme case to be sure, but I think that most higher level characters will tend to travel slower than their fame does, and once you get to 15th level (and if you keep the same general look to yourself) people will recognize you for who you really are more often.
Say you are in a tavern in Daggerdale in the Forgotten Realms when Manshoon walks in. Are most people going to think "Hmm, that looks like a powerful character, probably a wizard." or "There goes a fellow that seems confident and has probably seen things that I could never imagine."
I don't think so. They're going to think "Ooohh gods! It's @#%& Manshoon!! Oh, please Lathander and all other gods of what's good and right, let me get the hells out of here and leave with my life!"
An extreme case to be sure, but I think that most higher level characters will tend to travel slower than their fame does, and once you get to 15th level (and if you keep the same general look to yourself) people will recognize you for who you really are more often.
Larry Fitz
First Post
In the The Quick and the Dead Lance Henriksen's character, Ace, seemed like a high level character to all those who were looking, and he probabl;y was at least mid level, but he was a charalatan and a buffoon next to Hackman's character, even the other gunfighters couldn't tell that, they had to see it in action...
That's how i picture it, when not actually engaged in combat, bravado and confidence mean a lot less... and are easier to pull off.
In {i] Willow[/i] Val Kilmer's character, Mad Martigan, talks about how great he is, and then when he finally gets a couple of swords, you see he really is...
The reverse is also true, being a braggart does not mean you aren't really powerful either...
I prefer PC's (and NPC's) not knowing about each other till the moment of truth...
That's how i picture it, when not actually engaged in combat, bravado and confidence mean a lot less... and are easier to pull off.
In {i] Willow[/i] Val Kilmer's character, Mad Martigan, talks about how great he is, and then when he finally gets a couple of swords, you see he really is...
The reverse is also true, being a braggart does not mean you aren't really powerful either...
I prefer PC's (and NPC's) not knowing about each other till the moment of truth...
Dakkareth
First Post
How about an appraise check? 
I like the idea, that characters of the same profession would know better. For example if joe fighter (5) sees Mark uber-fighter walking along he might recognize his gait as a part of fighting style X, which he has seen only the fabulously powerful bodyguard of the king doing before.
Or Edwin the wizard might realize, that when Elmonster the uber-wizard seems to speak strange it's because he refers to everyday things with the arcane terms associated with high-level conjurations.
Mmhh so we have spot, sense motive, charisma, looks, bluff and class familiarity as factors. Someone want to put it into a formula?
As wizard I'd make a simple cantrip or level 1 spell to gauge relative powerlevel kinda like the detect magic aura system from whatever to overwhelming.
I like the idea, that characters of the same profession would know better. For example if joe fighter (5) sees Mark uber-fighter walking along he might recognize his gait as a part of fighting style X, which he has seen only the fabulously powerful bodyguard of the king doing before.
Or Edwin the wizard might realize, that when Elmonster the uber-wizard seems to speak strange it's because he refers to everyday things with the arcane terms associated with high-level conjurations.
Mmhh so we have spot, sense motive, charisma, looks, bluff and class familiarity as factors. Someone want to put it into a formula?
As wizard I'd make a simple cantrip or level 1 spell to gauge relative powerlevel kinda like the detect magic aura system from whatever to overwhelming.
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
It would depend upon the high level character and the nature of the campaign world. It's quite possible that, absent disguises, PCs or NPCs might recognize high level characters who'd been in the area before by name--"You, priest of St. Cuthbert with a turtle shell shield and obsidian morning star! You must be Falon Kilbourne. You saved my cousin from the gnoll slavers last year!/you raised my sister's cousin's nephew's liege lord from the dead!" or "You, with the raven, silver glaive and the symbol of Pholtus; you must be Frederick of the Pale--weren't you on trial for killing those corrupt sheriffs in Almor two years ago?/didn't you face down the undead hordes on the streets of Midmeadow?/I heard that you (almost) single-handedly killed a frost-giant by Shorewatch castle." or "Hmm. Shiny fullplate, a greatsword, jade symbol of Pelor and the medal of Keiss Sor? Must be Diomedes Hopesoul--I heard he married into House Grek. (Unusual for a member of the nobility to marry a foreigner--even if he is Suel). So the woman wearing the platinum ring must be Thetis Grek. They're both skilled warriors; I heard they killed two powerful necromancers in the County of Urnst and he was awarded the medal for recovering the bodies of all those who fell in the defense of Shorewatch Castle. I hear the Boneheart put a price on his head after he killed one of their wizards."
For that kind of information, Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Nobility and royalty), Bardic Lore, or Gather information would be the appropriate roll. Some individuals would have built up an accurate reputation, others would have exaggerated reputations, and still others might have no meaningful reputations as there were no witnesses to their exploits.
However, if they were disguised, and you were trying to guage their skill, it might be a great deal more difficult. I think a spot check would probably give information about apparent skill (Thetis is one of the most graceful people you've seen but Diomedes seems to have a fairly typical dexterity for instance). The difficulty of the spot check would depend upon the circumstances where they were observed. There's not too much difference between dex 18 and dex 10 when you're sitting down to eat dinner at an inn. If you're trying to make your way through a bustling crowd or dancing however, differences might well be apparent.
Aside from magic items (already discussed), a spot check combined with a spellcraft check might identify some material components of foci. If you catch a glimpse of a scrying mirror among the baggage tied to Frederick's horse, you might surmise that he can cast scry. Similarly, if you recognize that Diomedes and Thetis's rings are the foci for Shield Other, you might surmise that one of them can cast at least second level clerical spells. A higher level wizard's spell component pouches are probably a good deal more extensive than an apprentice's.
And if you see Frederick's raven having a chat with the grey thrush by the door, you can be pretty sure that Frederick has at least 7 levels of wizard.
As for telling base attack bonus, I think you'd need to actually see the characters do something that demonstrates their skills. If Bullseye is sitting in the tavern having a beer, you can't tell he's an incredible shot. OTOH, if he's playing darts, a spot check will tell you that the points of the darts in the bullseye all touch (so he can obviously hit AC 16-18 (whatever the bulleye is) without difficulty) and a sense motive will tell you that he's not even trying hard (so he can hit that number, even if he rolls rather poorly) Similarly, if you observe Robin Hood's bout with Little John, you can probably peg how many iterative attacks both of them have and whether or not they have TWF. But if you only observe them drinking in the greenwood, all you'll know is that Robin Hood won the golden arrow at Nottingham faire and that Little John beat him at quarterstaffs (if you've heard that).
Sense motive/spot would probably also be the mechanic for noticing whether the warrior in fullplate with the greatsword has worn the equipment long enough to be familiar with it and whether or not it looks used too. If the warrior keeps adjusting the baldric trying to find a comfortable fit or doesn't look used to the weight of his armor, he's probably green.
So, no transparency WRT levels. But you should be able to draw reasonable conclusions based upon equipment and observing class features in use. And characters may be appropriate subjects for Knowledge Local, Knowledge Nobility and Royalty, Bardic Lore, and/or Gather Information.
For that kind of information, Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Nobility and royalty), Bardic Lore, or Gather information would be the appropriate roll. Some individuals would have built up an accurate reputation, others would have exaggerated reputations, and still others might have no meaningful reputations as there were no witnesses to their exploits.
However, if they were disguised, and you were trying to guage their skill, it might be a great deal more difficult. I think a spot check would probably give information about apparent skill (Thetis is one of the most graceful people you've seen but Diomedes seems to have a fairly typical dexterity for instance). The difficulty of the spot check would depend upon the circumstances where they were observed. There's not too much difference between dex 18 and dex 10 when you're sitting down to eat dinner at an inn. If you're trying to make your way through a bustling crowd or dancing however, differences might well be apparent.
Aside from magic items (already discussed), a spot check combined with a spellcraft check might identify some material components of foci. If you catch a glimpse of a scrying mirror among the baggage tied to Frederick's horse, you might surmise that he can cast scry. Similarly, if you recognize that Diomedes and Thetis's rings are the foci for Shield Other, you might surmise that one of them can cast at least second level clerical spells. A higher level wizard's spell component pouches are probably a good deal more extensive than an apprentice's.
And if you see Frederick's raven having a chat with the grey thrush by the door, you can be pretty sure that Frederick has at least 7 levels of wizard.
As for telling base attack bonus, I think you'd need to actually see the characters do something that demonstrates their skills. If Bullseye is sitting in the tavern having a beer, you can't tell he's an incredible shot. OTOH, if he's playing darts, a spot check will tell you that the points of the darts in the bullseye all touch (so he can obviously hit AC 16-18 (whatever the bulleye is) without difficulty) and a sense motive will tell you that he's not even trying hard (so he can hit that number, even if he rolls rather poorly) Similarly, if you observe Robin Hood's bout with Little John, you can probably peg how many iterative attacks both of them have and whether or not they have TWF. But if you only observe them drinking in the greenwood, all you'll know is that Robin Hood won the golden arrow at Nottingham faire and that Little John beat him at quarterstaffs (if you've heard that).
Sense motive/spot would probably also be the mechanic for noticing whether the warrior in fullplate with the greatsword has worn the equipment long enough to be familiar with it and whether or not it looks used too. If the warrior keeps adjusting the baldric trying to find a comfortable fit or doesn't look used to the weight of his armor, he's probably green.
So, no transparency WRT levels. But you should be able to draw reasonable conclusions based upon equipment and observing class features in use. And characters may be appropriate subjects for Knowledge Local, Knowledge Nobility and Royalty, Bardic Lore, and/or Gather Information.
Dakkareth
First Post
Larry Fitz said:
Well, it would depend on the DM's style.
For example if I was to DM a campaign relative powerlevel would be very important as powerful people attract much unwanted attention and people of less power have more freedom on an absolute scale because nobody cares about them until the difference is made. Applied to the extreme cases of the spectrum this would mean, that for example a godlike being could recruit the PCs simply because nobody knows, who they are and their power is almost non-existant, which allows them to enter the inner sanctum of a rival god's temple without being caught. Of course power is determined in different categories - a god might care most about a wizard because his powers are the closest to his own. A kind on the other hand would be more afraid of the high level fighter, whose fighting troupe's deadly reputation is enough to make his bodyguards look for cover.
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