If a DM can't cheat, can a player cheat?

[JayDarkson]

I've had player's try to sneak a few rolls here and there... roll a d20 once and then say it's something else. Or even not roll and tell me they did then giving me the result.

If I catch it, I point it out. And shake my head. If I don't they get away with it. Another player might say something, but I just let it slide and make sure to watch the player roll next time.

It's only got really bad with one group that I had to put a pie tin in the middle of the table and tell everybody they had to roll in it so I could see their rolls and count the number of "pings" of the dice hitting the tin.

I had another player drill small holes in four or five red six-sided dice with white pips then paint the holes white with white-out. The end result? four or five six-siders with all fives and sixes for character creation. The funny thing is he didn't put enough sixes on the dice so when he was rolling his stats he barely got more than 15's or 16's.

On a more amusing note a player in my current group will fail miserably on a spot check and then announce to the whole table "And my cheating roll is..." then roll the die a second time and it more often than not comes up much higher. I never let her use the roll of course but it brings a certain good natured humor to the table of players that don't cheat.

If a player is cheating, it can't be much fun for you or the other players. I personally try to curb it immediately when it comes up. I mean the whole point of rolling dice is to get a random result. Take that out of the game and we're just telling each other how much we've hit for and for how much damage.

 

[Talon5]

Been running a campaign for a few months the characters are headed for 6th lvl. I have been kinda stagnet about ideas and just running it until I figure out what to do next.

I have a kinda loose idea regarding the cleric and her father and a whole campaign thing, its pretty loose, but its all I have, but the PCs need to finish the present campaign before that can start. In any case-

Yesterday the PCs get into a pickle- 20+ or - Goblins riding Worgs in a camp, so far the PCs have been picking off the Rnger/Rog Goblins in small groups but for some reason they took on a but load of them. It was looking like a TPK- the rogue and the wiz run from the fight after the ranger/sorc buys it. Now the cleric and the ranger are fighting about ten by themselves and they are fighting in the single digits- this is gonna end the campaign if I kill the cleric.

The ranger drops then the cleric. The wiz and rogue are safely away, trapped in a mine waiting to run out of food and start eating their horses and ponys.

But Do That Sexy Machine shows up. An old friend riding a previously sick dragon they had helped out in an earlier campaign. The two are rescued and the dragon only kills four goblins.

Ya, the GM cheated. If the cleric had kicked it then I would have ended the campaign- why cause I am out of ideas and she is the only source I have right now is that a bad thing?

If I didn't cheat and bring in that Sexy Machine then the campaign is over, done, and I get to hear about it for a couple of years.

GMs & Players cheat because they are small people. GMs also cheat for another reason- to save the campaign or to be able to continue the campaign.

 

[Ranes]

I don't understand cheating. Part of the fun playing is not knowing whether the dice roll will succeed, bring much glory, or fail, bringing blood and woe.

Cheating would just remove that thrill from the game. "Oh look, I succeeded again...Ho Hum." And there isn't much left after that.

Agreed. Our shared interest is pointless enough already. Denying ourselves the certainty of success is all we have.

DMs who fudge rolls because of a perceived benefit to their game, whether that be saving the cleric or saving their favourite NPC may be doing the right thing for their games or they may be DMing badly. Only their players can say.

In my game, to be an NPC is to be expendable, regardless of the amount of work invested. My players recognise this. In the interests of symmetry, the same thing goes for their PCs.