If it's an obvious choice then it's broken

[Destil]

The heroic tier seeker has enough tools to do their job, though the at wills need careful setup (having a defender who has innate resistance like a tiefling battlemind or a githzeri swordmage helps a lot). They could use an extra area encounter or two with some controlling aspects but as a hybrid controller/striker they get by. Not a lot of power selection since there tends to be only one or two good powers at any given level, but they work.

Their paragon tier powers are generally poor, and their epic tier powers are just awful. There's a few standouts, but that's where they really need work.

 

[Saeviomagy]

they have a tendency to ignore builds and even classes (*cough*Vampire*cough*) that aren't capable of meeting certain damage baselines.

I'm sure if you have some sort of niche that a vampire can fill effectively, you'll be a hero to CharOp. Single target damage dealt is pretty much the defining characteristic of a striker, so it seems unfair to complain that CharOp have taken that into account when looking at the class. People have tried all sorts of other things with it too, but the simple fact is that vampires aren't really good at anything except being easy to heal outside of combat.

Incidentally, look at the explosion of activity that came with the hybrid and multiclass vampire rules. CharOp are perfectly willing to use vampires as long as they don't have to use their awful powers.

 

[tiornys]

I'm sure if you have some sort of niche that a vampire can fill effectively, you'll be a hero to CharOp. Single target damage dealt is pretty much the defining characteristic of a striker, so it seems unfair to complain that CharOp have taken that into account when looking at the class. People have tried all sorts of other things with it too, but the simple fact is that vampires aren't really good at anything except being easy to heal outside of combat.

Incidentally, look at the explosion of activity that came with the hybrid and multiclass vampire rules. CharOp are perfectly willing to use vampires as long as they don't have to use their awful powers.

Oh, I wasn't saying they were wrong in their evaluation of the Vampire. Just pointing it out as a prime example of something they'd dismiss once they couldn't find a way to get it up to their baseline.

A straight Vampire pretty much has no business in a game full of optimized characters. But an optimized Vampire could probably hold its own alongside non-optimized characters, and there are definitely groups where an optimizer might be looking for something underpowered so he doesn't overshadow the rest of the group. For cases like that among other reasons, there's still value in a discussion about how to get the most out of a Vampire, but the CharOp regulars aren't, for the most part, willing to have that discussion.

t~

 

[Saeviomagy]

On the one hand I can sort of see your point, and on the other hand I can see theirs: It's pretty easy to make a bad character. The goal of making a good bad character is more than a little contradictory.