If not magic items, then what?

[Drammattex]

plot advancement, social position, favours owed, maidens rescued, kingdoms won, righteous triumph - all those frilly little things that we used to concentrate on

Seriously.

I can't dispute that killing things and taking their neat stuff isn't a valid way to play D&D, however as a player I find the advancement of my character's story a far more worthwhile reward. Stuff loses its meaning over time. At least for me. I realize there needs to be a reward mechanic in place in the game. But making it "more stuff" always feels so cheap to me; D&D becomes about the acquisition of stuff. Makes me feel all dirty.

 

[Toryx]

I agree (and mentioned in my original post) that plot advancement was one reward for adventuring, but I don't think it's enough to stand in for the immediate gratification offered by magic items. As it stands, from the player's perspective, he generally busts in the door to a dungeon, smooshes whatever's moving in there, and gets rewarded.

I don't think there has to be something to replace that instant reward of the loot at the bottom of the tunnel. I think that if the point of the game is the adventure, then simple survival and success will be enough of a reward on it's own. Historically (pre-3.x) that was much more often the case. It's only recently that there needed to be a pile of loot at the end to make the adventure worthwhile.

That's what works for me, anyway. I want to get back to that motivation and reward. I'd rather have magic items and big piles of gold be more rare so that I appreciate it no matter what or how much it is. I'll still have the thrill/ reward of triumph and anything else is a delightful bonus instead of an expectation.

Then again, maybe the 3.x system of immediate financial gratification is simply a reflection of society today that can't be overcome. That would be, in my opinion, a real shame.

 

[Nebulous]

I'm also for less magic items, and emphasizing more unique items. The Flaming Sword of Aeroth beats a +1 ring of protection any day.

I wonder if the acquisition of action points would be a good substitute? Or even partial action points if the DM wants to really control the flow. A 1/2 point here and there could substantially add up without becoming too much for a player to acquire.

 

[delericho]

Most of what I'm seeing about 4e I like so far. One thing, though, that still has me puzzled is the claim of less reliance on magic items. While I don't mind this in principle, I don't understand what they're going to replace it with, as a reward.

Nothing. People will just have to play the game for the fun of it, I guess.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

In response to what's been said so far, I agree that I don't mind having fewer magic items; my question was more about the implementation than anything. Players need some kind of a reward for adventuring; otherwise there's no motivation to play. I don't suggest that magic items will be removed from the game, but, if there are fewer of them to go around, I wonder what will be the impetus for adventuring to take their place. The designers can certainly balance the game to be reasonable without many magic items, but that still won't remove the need to reward players for accomplishing things.

Where have they said there will be fewer of them to go around? They have said they are reducing the Christmas Tree effect of everyone having to walk around with +X weapon, +X Armor boosting item, +x Ring of Protection, +x Cloak, etc. etc. That doesn't mean they won't be able to have as many magic items, it just won't be needed in order to face the challenges as written in the rules.

There will be as many magic items available as the DM decides to give out, and hopefully many of them will be much more interesting that a +1 sword. The big improvement will be that DMs who choose to give out few items will not be screwing the PCs.

We'll have to wait and see how things are balanced for DMs who give out magic items liberally.

 

[KingCrab]

I really like the idea of a character's power coming from the character and not what he/she has to use. If they design characters and their abilities well, there will be no feeling of loss when the hordes of magical treasure disappear.

 

[Fifth Element]

Also, if there are going to be fewer magic items around, what will money be used for, given that, at present, the largest part of a player's wealth is normally spent on magic items? Will magic just be that much more expensive?

I would be in favour of reducing character wealth as a whole. I've never been comfortable with handing out piles and piles of gold, and individual 15th-level characters being as wealthy as some kingdoms.

Perhaps something starting to resemble even a moderately reasonable economic model will be in 4E?

 

[Doug McCrae]

Magic items will still be a reward, they just won't be essential to be competitive within the CR system. I guess they'll no longer affect the key numbers - armor class, to hit, damage, hit points and saves - but will provide other bennies instead.

The question remains how much of a bennie though. Folding boat or belt of battle?

 

[TarionzCousin]

Just like Magic: the Gathering cards, some magic items will be only available at sanctioned WotC events.

New Magic Item(Extremely Rare) High Holy Hat of Hating.

The wearer of this hat is allowed to rant and/or spew hatred about whatever he/she wants without fear of being banned from messageboards, humorously "misquoted," or insulted in any way shape or form. Oh, and you're immune to Baleful Polymorph too.

 

[Kraydak]

I don't think there has to be something to replace that instant reward of the loot at the bottom of the tunnel. I think that if the point of the game is the adventure, then simple survival and success will be enough of a reward on it's own. Historically (pre-3.x) that was much more often the case. It's only recently that there needed to be a pile of loot at the end to make the adventure worthwhile.

That's what works for me, anyway. I want to get back to that motivation and reward. I'd rather have magic items and big piles of gold be more rare so that I appreciate it no matter what or how much it is. I'll still have the thrill/ reward of triumph and anything else is a delightful bonus instead of an expectation.

Then again, maybe the 3.x system of immediate financial gratification is simply a reflection of society today that can't be overcome. That would be, in my opinion, a real shame.

You must have played a very different 1/2e than I. I certainly adventured for loot. Every DnD game I heard tell of, adventured for loot. Every game I heard tell of that didn't adventure for loot, rapidly faded into disinterest.