If players don't GM, can they complain?

[clip]

Here's a thought. I participate regularly at a small but well supported club, and there are about 10-12 regular players of several systems, and at least another 6 semi-regular players - a lot of old school games like Traveller, CoC - but a lot of 3.5e, 4e, Hero and SW too.

Here's the thing, players love to be outspoken and talk trash all the time on the club site etc. That's no problem. There's also the usual old vs. new debates and the usual roleplaying vs hacking debates. This is only natural. What is starting to annoy me is that there are several players continuously grumbling about certain types of games and certain play styles - yet in the past two years, there have been precious few volunteers to DM games. The overwhelming majority of DMing (across all systems) is done by 3 people, with another 2 chipping in occassionally. The players that complain most- that the games going on could be better in xyz way, or how much they prefer old school to new school, are the ones that never DM, never volunteer to DM, and are the fastest with the excuses on why it would be impossible for them to do so.

So generally - everyone's entitled to an opinion, and everyone should say what they want to play - but in a club situation, should those unwilling to referee just STFU at some point?

 

[Morrus]

Depends how much they do it.

Can someone who doesn't cook complain in a restaurant? Can a non-movie-director complain about a movie? And a non-RPG-designer complain about a game system?

They're certainly entitled to express criticism; but if they're doing it so much that it's to the detriment of everyone else's fun then maybe they need to learn a few manners and do so at a more appropriate time.

 

[falcarrion]

Players and coaches do it in sports all the time. So why not in a rpg.
Just because I don't wish to Gm doesn't mean I don't have the right to complain.
If it doesn't disrupt the game, then its ok. I perfer to wait til after the game session to discuss/complain about something. Out of respect to the other players and the GM.

 

[im_robertb]

The thing is, it's usually a lot easier to find a cook willing to cook you a meal who has an opening at their dinner table, than...you get the analogy.

I think it comes down to supply and demand. I have the luxury of running the game I want, because I can find enough players who are interested in that game. Some DMs can barely scrape a group together, and it's at times like that, I think, that 'bad groups' get together - ones where not enough fun is being had for playing to be worth it. Such a thing can also happen with a shortage of DMs.

 

[clip]

I don't have a problem with anyone complaining or having an opinion. What I think is a problem is that these guys want to moan continuously about the same old chestnuts (ie old vs new, games too combat orientated etc) and yet at any time, they could step up to the plate and DM "that" game- and have as much roleplaying and as little fighting as they please.

This isn't like the non-movie director complaining about a movie. This is RPG at a club - not a private group - and it's obvious that there is a shortage of DMs (GMs/referees/whatever).

 

[ExploderWizard]

Some players are never satisfied with anything and no GM is going to make them happy.

Everyone has a right to an opinion but a player who never has anything positive to say and also refuses to demonstrate how things are done "correctly" should perhaps be a bit less vocal and obnoxious with those opinions.

 

[delericho]

Broadly speaking, if they have an opinion then they're welcome to express it. Constructive criticism can only make me a better DM.

However, if the criticism becomes abusive, or goes over the top, then they will be invited to leave.

Finally, there does come a point where people should "put up or shut up". If they're so certain that the game would be so much better run their way, then they should be willing to actually run it their way. They may well find that it's not actually just as obvious as they thought...

 

[Umbran]

Do you have the right to say you don't like certain kinds of books even though you don't write them? Do you have the right to complain about how bad a movie is, though you've never made one? Can you legitimately say a souffle tasted bad, though you've never cooked one?

I think you've always got a right to state your tastes. Your right ends when you start saying that other people's tastes are objectively bad, you insult others to make your points, and so on.

With the right comes a responsibility: not to be an annoying git about it.

 

[Nifft]

Where I live, they are indeed free to complain, just as you are free to complain about them complaining. You are also free to kick them out of your club for being whiners, which is what I'd do if they annoyed me.

Other jurisdictions may vary.

Cheers, -- N

 

[TarionzCousin]

... and yet at any time, they could step up to the plate and DM "that" game- and have as much roleplaying and as little fighting as they please.

Nigel "This game sucks. Why don't we ever play Tunnels and Trolls? I loved that game."
clip "You run it and we'll play it. Until that happens, quit whining. Nobody likes to hear it."

I'm with Nifft, but I used to live in New York City, too--in general, we're a confrontational bunch.