If they "silo" spells, why not skills?

[Branduil]

We know that, in 4th edition, there will be siloing of spells, so that spellcasters will have an allotment of combat and utility spells.

So, my thought is, why not silo skills as well? One of the problems I've noticed in the D&D skill system is that almost no one takes skills like Craft, Perform, or Profession unless they need to for a specific class. There just aren't enough skill points to go around, and its more practical to put points into other skills. The knowledge skills suffer as well.

So why not divide skills into two categories, primary and secondary? In the secondary category you would put Craft, Perform, Profession, and all the Knowledge skills. Then each class gets a small number of Secondary skill in addition to the Primary ones. For instance, the Rogue would get something like 6+Int mod trained Primary skills and 2+Int mod trained secondary skills(I assume 4e will be using something similar to the Saga system for trained skills).

Hopefully the 4e designers have already thought of this.

 

[Victim]

We don't even how how strongly class is tied to out of combat role (ie, most skill use).

 

[Plane Sailing]

With the proviso that we don't know what they are doing with skills, this sounds like an excellent idea. I've toyed in the past with the idea of giving everyone the chance to have at least one 'flavour' skill as a freebie.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yes, this seems like an interesting idea that could work.

In fact, it might also be a way to make attacks or saves into skills. But I doubt that the latter is something we will see in D&D 4. (This would require a lot more more work).

 

[Nikosandros]

I have often given free ranks in "background skills", so I think it's a good idea...

 

[Irda Ranger]

I disagree.

I think Knowledge, Profession, etc. should be removed from the Skill list entirely and booted right out of the rules.

Is your PC an expert on Sembian cheeses? Good for you. From a 'balance the adventure' perspective, no one cares.


Really, I believe two things:
1. No one should be forced to take ranks in Craft if it don't fit their character.
2. No one should have to level up in Fighter to take ranks in Craft.

The two things have nothing to do with each other.

 

[Shieldhaven]

I, in turn, disagree with you, Irda Ranger.

Putting character-build energy (skill points, feats, whatever) into skills that just give you bonus information about the world is certainly valid. I mean, you might as well say, "Your character is good at arguing? (from his Persuasion/Diplomacy/whatever skill) Good for you." We have had coherent rules for Knowledge skills for a good long while now, whereas we're only now getting what might be solid rules on social conflict.

Now, I'll agree that automatic improvement is weird, even a little troublesome, for Craft and Profession skills (much less so for Knowledge skills). But I'd be considerably dismayed if rules support for PC concepts like "weaponsmith" or "alchemist" went away.

Haven

 

[Nebulous]

I disagree.

I think Knowledge, Profession, etc. should be removed from the Skill list entirely and booted right out of the rules.

Is your PC an expert on Sembian cheeses? Good for you. From a 'balance the adventure' perspective, no one cares.


Really, I believe two things:
1. No one should be forced to take ranks in Craft if it don't fit their character.
2. No one should have to level up in Fighter to take ranks in Craft.

The two things have nothing to do with each other.

No, i think these are much too important for a roleplaying game, but i don't think they have been implemented correctly in any edition of D&D. The focus is on tactical combat, and the other rules tend to get pushed to the wayside. A high level fighter is going to naturally have "Craft" something, even if you don't think about it during a typical adventure session. I agree with another poster that there needs to be a system where valuable skill ranks (assuming they work as they did in 3e) aren't "squandered" on Profession and Craft and Knowledge so that they suck away from Stealth and Perception. On the character sheet it would help greatly to have those as a separate sub-section with its own rules, possibly independent of level.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Maybe we need rules for ranged Craft checks, or Profession touch attacks or Knowledge skills usable in combat?

 

[Nebulous]

Maybe we need rules for ranged Craft checks, or Profession touch attacks or Knowledge skills usable in combat?

"I throw my personally woven basket at the basilisk and run!"

"I punch the gorgon between the eyes with my toughened Armorsmithing hand!"

"I use Knowledge: Nature/Animals to determine if the catoblepas has a weak spot!" (Oh, wait, you can do that.