"If this problem is so bad, why aren't YOU doing it, NPC?"

[Celebrim]

Remove the link between political power and personal power. Consider very nearly any President of the United States. Would you really want him personally backing you up in a fight?

Depends on the President. I'd much rather have had Andrew Jackson backing me up in a fight than have him as President. Guy was evil, but he won the office in no small part on the strength of his personal prowess. He's one scary stone cold killer. George Washington was widely considered to be one of the finest horsemen in the world in his time. Teddy Roosevelt was a crack shot. I'd keep going but sooner or later it would get political.

Bit of a spoiler, but I was in a Chill adventure one time where the British Prime Minister went off on the bad guys and helped save our hides.

I know I wouldn't. I'd much rather he sent a Marine or two with me.

Or a battalion or two, but here we run into a problem. Quite unlike the real world, our fantasy world has superheroes and active pagan dieties and political power is very closely tied to personal power - and vica versa. The guy with political power has the backing of dieties (and possibly their blood in his veins), the blessings of his or her faerie god-mother, spells cast on him by the mightiest archmages, has been dipped into the river styx while his mother held his ankle, or what not.

In our fantasy world, one guy can take on a batalion of marines with a reasonable chance of success. Sure, we can divorse political authority from personal prowess to some extent - the head of state doesn't always have to be the most powerful person in the domain or even close to it - but we can't fully divorse it because competence is so closely tied to prowess.

Besides which, mine is a 'lead from the front' sort of world because those battalions know that there are individuals that can take them down single handedly and they expect their leaders to protect them. It's a 'Paul Atreides' sort of world where Princes are trained from birth to be worth at least a dozen lesser men in battle.

Still, that means what, maybe 5th or 6th level?

IME, the Forgotten Realms is the absolute worst offender here.

The FR offends my sensibilities on all sorts of levels.

 

[SteveC]

Different answers for different types of campaigns. To give one example, I'm reading the Hawk and Fischer books at the moment (very good stuff). The PCs are, quite simply, the only honest lawmen in town. They have a huge reputation for that, so they get some of the jobs that no one wants, some of the jobs that will keep them from mucking up the plans of the higher ups, and sometimes they get set into a situation because no one else can deal with it.

They run into plenty of powerful NPCs, some who are much tougher than they are, but their skill set is unique. "Yes, I am a powerful wizard, but what do I know about crime investigations?"

In other games, I've seen the notion (to quote B5) that the group is "the right people at the right time for the right reason," to get the job done. Thinking of B5, I had a GM in a D&D game give me the perfect setup line once, when he said, "if you go to <evil location X> you will die." I snapped back: "maybe so, but not easily." And eventually we did go there, and my character did die, but it was the wrap up of the campaign, so it seemed fitting.

--Steve

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

how do you justify or otherwise deal with the adventuring party limited roughly in number to the players' numbers, and with higher level NPCs being around who should be able to solve the problems of the world that the PCs deal with.

Lots of great solutions already postsd upthread. Here's a few things off the top of my head.

For high-power campaigns:[sblock] - more badguys than good guys: NPCs can't do everything and genuinely need PC help

- high-level NPCs are "too busy" for, or unconvinced/unaware of, the problems the PCs face

- BBEGs are more powerful than high-level goodguys: NPCs run interference, create diversion, stall, focus on select BBEGs, give advice, etc, while PCs slip in "under the radar", have time to mature, take on other BBEGs

- there are no high-level goodguy NPCs: that is the destiny of successful PCs

- high-level NPCs are extinct or incapacitated: PCs have to revive the sleepers, locate the remnants, etc.

- prophecy: it would be "inappropriate" for the high-level NPCs to extensively interfere with the PCs and their relationship with the setting

- low-level/high-influence NPCs don't have game "XPerience", but have plenty of life experience: they serve as advisors, contacts, mentors, leaders, etc, but must leave the "heavy lifting" to the PCs.[/sblock]

For low-power campaigns: [sblock] I prefer low-power campaigns because this issue more or less settles itself. In such settings (eg, with very limited magic, or heroic-tier-only levelling, etc), the NPCs don't necessarily outshine the PCs in raw power.

NPCs often exercise their power through leadership, knowledge, political influence, and the like. PC power is often defined by brute force, kewl powerz, and shiny loot. In both cases, one side has what the other needs. In this way, aid rendered by either side to the other is truly helpful, without stretching "suspension of disbelief" too much in either direction.

IMHO, it changes the metagame rationalization about "why NPCs don't" into questions of character motivation and "why NPCs do".[/sblock]

 

[an_idol_mind]

I think the answer depends on the NPC, but there are more reasons than one might think.

In the Lord of the Rings, Gandalf couldn't take the Ring because a) the ring would more easily corrupt someone so powerful, and b) Sauron would be expecting him and prepare to stop him.

In the Forgotten Realms, there are plenty of examples in novels where a guy like Elminster does take a hands-on approach to something. However, he can't be everywhere at once. Additionally, folks watch Elminster because of how powerful he is. His intervention in certain matters could make things worse, not better. Finally, and most often forgotten, is the fact that Elminster has a touch of the crazy. That adventure someone mentioned where he pops in and randomly heals the party? The context for that is that he's trying to train a dog. He not only didn't realize he had teleported somewhere, but he didn't realize he was using a powerful magic wand as a fetching stick. Elminster might be able to take on that great evil, but what if he has a moment of senility and forgets? Better for the adventurers to deal with it themselves.

In my homebrew game, the high-level NPCs have varying motivations. Some are ruling kingdoms. Others are on another quest. Many of the higher-level NPCs are old and/or retired, meaning that they're not the best suited to go back on a major quest. Many also carry severe mental scars - adventuring is not the healthiest of careers. Those individuals might still be physically capable, but they are either unwilling to risk life and limb again or they have loved ones who they would be putting in danger by even thinking about picking up a sword again.

 

[Scott DeWar]

There are several post I may have missed in this question, but as an idea of why the major NPC that is friendly to the party won't is he/she can't for the reason of political intrigue, such as

1) maybe there is a hostage involved that the good npc is favored toward/ cares very much for.

2) Maybe the god npc is in the middle of a delicate political power play that may have farreaching negetive repercussions

3) mybe the good npc is being watched by the bad npc or the bad npc's organization and held in check for any number of a myiad of ideas. i have to say the idea of why the good dragons did not attack the bad dragons in dragon lance was a good secret reason why they were held in check. for those who do not know:

[sblock=game spoiler] the eggs of the good dragons were stolan from them and held hostage, but is all that I will give away [/sblock]

)

but that is just my two cents worth

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Edit: On second thought, while funny, that link probably isn't grandma safe.

 

[avin]

Why didn't Gandalf hop aboard Gwaihir and fly the Ring to Mount Doom?

Tolkien wasn't very smart

 

[Deset Gled]

I'm just going to leave this here...

(in spoiler block due to language)

[SBLOCK]

[/SBLOCK]

/threadjack

 

[Oryan77]

with higher level NPCs being around who should be able to solve the problems of the world that the PCs deal with.

The higher level NPCs have obviously been married a lot longer than the PCs. Most of the time, the PCs aren't even married. I've always assumed the reason these people aren't saving the day is because any time they try to leave the house, the old "Ball-and-Chain" starts nagging at them again. As soon as they grab their sword, spellbook, or acoustic guitar and start to head out the door, she begins reminding them about all of the things they gotta take care of at home before they start taking care of the rest of the world.

First, ya gotta pick up some cloth diapers at the market. Then ya gotta finish repairing the hole in the thatched roof that you promised to fix last spring. If yer gonna be gone during the winter time, ya gotta chop enough wood to last her through the season. What about saying goodbye to the in-laws? And who's gonna finish digging the irrigation system? Certainly not her!

That's where the PCs come in. Fresh, hearty, eager, and single....let them save the world this year.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

The higher level NPCs have obviously been married a lot longer than the PCs. Most of the time, the PCs aren't even married. I've always assumed the reason these people aren't saving the day is because any time they try to leave the house, the old "Ball-and-Chain" starts nagging at them again. As soon as they grab their sword, spellbook, or acoustic guitar and start to head out the door, she begins reminding them about all of the things they gotta take care of at home before they start taking care of the rest of the world.

Hehe. That's awesome. Probably not too far from the truth. Still, it really depends on the scale. When your adventure involves an evil powerful force that is likely to lay waste to a country or the entire planet, you better hope that the King who is also a 20th level Wizard who controls 20,000 troops decides that stopping the evil is in his best interest, even though his wife wants him to do the laundry. Either that or he can risk a bunch of untrustworthy adventures far less powerful then he is in the hopes that they succeed. I know what I'd do.