"If this problem is so bad, why aren't YOU doing it, NPC?"

[Nifft]

As one of the most powerful NPCs in my old campaign said when the players asked for his direct help: "I can't scratch my ass without it sending shock waves from here to the far corners of the world." Power having a price was one of the key themes of the campaign and I tried to make it clear that there were vast struggles going on just beyond the senses of the common folk.
I managed to illustrate this with a special encounter, when the party was around 13th level they encountered a group of 4th and 5th level adventures in danger of being crushed by a more powerful group of foes. The player vanquished the monsters with ease and raised the partie's cleric from the dead, leading to the NPC leader begging them for assistance in their quest, something they had no time for. "These guys will never get over being so pathetic if we follow them around carrying their diaper bags." one player commented. They ended up sending the NPC party on it's way with some spare magic items. I think the whole experiance gave them a view of the sort of problems their patrons and masters had to deal with. -Q.

Awesome. I need to find a way to use this.

That's so true. "Hm, that last batch of adventurers perished horribly, so the dragon must be in that area. (...)"

Heh. Or: "No word yet from those adventurers, the cowards probably deserted. Put their names on some wanted posters."

If you leave your leadership position for too long, to go on a quest, you create a vacuum. Your internal and external rivals will take advantage of it. Things will collapse because you aren't there to manage it. Or things won't collapse (a sign of choosing good underlings) which only indicates that YOU aren't needed.

Very, very, very true!

Cheers, -- N

 

[MarkB]

I've hardly ever run into this question, because I rarely ever use powerful PC-classed NPC patrons. I've always favoured the outlook espoused in the 3.5e Eberron campaign setting, having most NPCs use mostly NPC classes, with even the more adventuresome types having only a smattering of PC class levels thrown in, and also keeping in mind that just because someone has more political influence, personal wealth or social standing than the PCs, they don't necessarily have to be higher level.

Nobody really questions it when the Warrior2/Aristocrat5 town sheriff sends the PCs off to the Dungeon of Perilous Despair instead of going there himself. As adventurers, they have a skill-set that he lacks.

 

[Thunderfoot]

I think this question shows one of the absolute flaws of our hobby, one that the rules have failed to properly address since the start. 1e & 2e said most NPCs were 0-level , of no consequence, which worked in a way, because it explained WHY they couldn't go off and destroy the UE of the world. However, as power gamers emerged, the "destroy the town for XP" scenarios started to erupt. 3.X decided to get around the above problem by giving the NPCs levels, even the farmer down the road, this solved the "dtt4XP" problem, but propagates the very question that the OP posed. Of course 4e decides that adventurers are a dime a dozen and even the baby in the cradle has phenomenal cosmic powers (hyperbole, of course).

I'm not sure there is a "good" answer to this question, moreover, its probably a, "this works for me, but YMMV" answer. I've always gone with the assumption that the PCs are in a unique position to solve the problems posed to them, whether by talent, tools or location, location, location.... Also, I have always considered the army, militias, etc, are largely untrained or moreover have skills appropriate for war, but not for small engagements. Let's face it, commando tactics were learned from native Americans and have evolved to the "norm" that we know over the last 300+ years. So, for those I game with, this usually is a "good enough" explanation. But I don't think that will work for everyone.

I wish I had a better, more solid answer, but frankly, I just don't think a truly perfect explanation actually exists. Sri.

 

[Celebrim]

Let's face it, commando tactics were learned from native Americans...

Arrrgghhhh... where did you get that idea, Mel Gibson? Do you think raiding and guerilla warfare tactics were unknown in the old world? Let me guess, the Vikings learned it from the native Americans too? Do you think 'commando' is a Native American word?

Save us from the Hollywood history!

 

[Dausuul]

I think this question shows one of the absolute flaws of our hobby, one that the rules have failed to properly address since the start. 1e & 2e said most NPCs were 0-level , of no consequence, which worked in a way, because it explained WHY they couldn't go off and destroy the UE of the world. However, as power gamers emerged, the "destroy the town for XP" scenarios started to erupt. 3.X decided to get around the above problem by giving the NPCs levels, even the farmer down the road, this solved the "dtt4XP" problem, but propagates the very question that the OP posed. Of course 4e decides that adventurers are a dime a dozen and even the baby in the cradle has phenomenal cosmic powers (hyperbole, of course).

There's a real easy solution to this, which is not to give XP for killing anything that moves. XP for kills is an idiotic convention that was dropped like a hot potato by pretty much every other tabletop RPG (with the exception of D&D clones). It's a holdover from D&D's wargaming origins.

If computer RPGs hadn't picked it up and run with it, I suspect D&D would have gotten rid of it by now as well. As it is, I and most DMs of my acquaintance ignore this rule and hand out XP based on story objectives and general PC awesomeness.

In fact, since 4E got rid of the concept of XP costs, I don't use XP at all any more. I just tell the PCs when they level up.

 

[LostSoul]

I think this question shows one of the absolute flaws of our hobby, one that the rules have failed to properly address since the start.

I think there are a number of games that avoid this problem.

 

[maddman75]

I think there are a number of games that avoid this problem.

I think the secret is 'don't use levels'.

 

[Achan hiArusa]

Sorry to threadjack, but I'm mildly disturbed that all the LotR quotes are from the movie and not the books.

 

[fuzzlewump]

Sorry to threadjack, but I'm mildly disturbed that all the LotR quotes are from the movie and not the books.

"Run, you fools!"

 

[fuzzlewump]

I think the secret is 'don't use levels'.

Definitely. Leveling systems make it clear that anything that levels beyond maybe 1 or 2 levels is some kind of alien, and you're not really playing a human anymore. Trying to continue to play the game as if the level 30 humans and the level 1 humans are both the same humans that we are, in real life, is I think what every game with leveling like D&D will ultimately fail at. But, I like games still being relevant to the human condition, and I like playing D&D, so clearly something has to be 'glossed over.'