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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7540572" data-attributes="member: 6919838">Upset - nope. Amuse - certainly. So thx for that.&nbsp;Few points that stand out to me...First, You keep referring to &quot;the d20&quot; but it seems like its more &quot;the system&quot; or rather your imagining of a system applied around a d20 that is what you bring up as examples. Would a system which rolled 3d6 uet assigned a 5% chance to queen marriage silly stuff be any different? Nope. Bet not. What if it were a d10 based dicepool that also resulted in a 5% royal wedding orc bash outcome? Nope. Bet not. So, methink thou dost protest a perception of a rules system, possibly not even a real one, and its results and not its randomizer.Second, &quot;the d20 system&quot; (now that we know we are talking rules not randomizer at all) has only been around sine 3.x not 50 years - doesnt include 1e 2e or really even 5e afaik. Moreover, i dont know of any game system published under that baileywick where a rule stated that a single die roll by an untrained orc gets you acmaga win on a marriage quest - but i am sure you must have a rules cite for us since thats the case you chose to illustrate your point, right? For actual &quot;d20 system&quot; games i have run (D&amp;D 3.5, T20, Midnight, Stargate SG-1, MnM and others) not one of themhad social mechanics that by rule or by example showed anything like that as a &quot;by the book outcome&quot; so its almost reads like a parody of d20 systems being used to prop up a position.Third, any GM can mis-apply any mechanic. Just because survival rolls are used to resolve navigating in the wilds - that doesnt mean the rule requires a single d20 to resolve a thousand mile trek with 1 and 20 bounding &quot;died lost in the woods&quot; and &quot;became rulers of all that land&quot; anymore than they require a GM to rule a single d20 roll by an untrained orc gets you from hi to honeymoon.In 5e before a d20 is needed the basic choice by the gm has been &quot;is this posibble&quot; and the rules dont give it as an example and no GM i ever saw would rule so - except maybe a Toon game.I have not encounted any ruleset that did not have issues or that everyone should like, but at least we could be at a ground level fair enough to use examples from actual rules.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7540572, member: 6919838"] Upset - nope. Amuse - certainly. So thx for that. Few points that stand out to me... First, You keep referring to "the d20" but it seems like its more "the system" or rather your imagining of a system applied around a d20 that is what you bring up as examples. Would a system which rolled 3d6 uet assigned a 5% chance to queen marriage silly stuff be any different? Nope. Bet not. What if it were a d10 based dicepool that also resulted in a 5% royal wedding orc bash outcome? Nope. Bet not. So, methink thou dost protest a perception of a rules system, possibly not even a real one, and its results and not its randomizer. Second, "the d20 system" (now that we know we are talking rules not randomizer at all) has only been around sine 3.x not 50 years - doesnt include 1e 2e or really even 5e afaik. Moreover, i dont know of any game system published under that baileywick where a rule stated that a single die roll by an untrained orc gets you acmaga win on a marriage quest - but i am sure you must have a rules cite for us since thats the case you chose to illustrate your point, right? For actual "d20 system" games i have run (D&D 3.5, T20, Midnight, Stargate SG-1, MnM and others) not one of themhad social mechanics that by rule or by example showed anything like that as a "by the book outcome" so its almost reads like a parody of d20 systems being used to prop up a position. Third, any GM can mis-apply any mechanic. Just because survival rolls are used to resolve navigating in the wilds - that doesnt mean the rule requires a single d20 to resolve a thousand mile trek with 1 and 20 bounding "died lost in the woods" and "became rulers of all that land" anymore than they require a GM to rule a single d20 roll by an untrained orc gets you from hi to honeymoon. In 5e before a d20 is needed the basic choice by the gm has been "is this posibble" and the rules dont give it as an example and no GM i ever saw would rule so - except maybe a Toon game. I have not encounted any ruleset that did not have issues or that everyone should like, but at least we could be at a ground level fair enough to use examples from actual rules. [/QUOTE]

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