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Ignoring the 4e DMG

See this? This right here? It's dumb. This is why you should be using the DMG.

A 9th level orc minion does a whole six points of damage. And, being a minion, it goes down in one hit, even for a 1st-level character. And it's worth just as much XP as a normal 1st-level monster. Minions, even very high level ones, are just not much of a threat.

Admittedly at dozens, it's probably a TPK no matter what. But a DM who was more familiar with the system might instead throw a bunch of Orc Berzerkers and Orc Raiders at the party--These lower-leveled, normal monsters are much better representations of the threat that orcs should represent to 1st-level characters.

"The threat that orcs should represent"?! Why not orc drudges, then? And how do you know what threat orcs should represent in my campaign?

IMC, these orcs were Orc Warriors because they were particularly highly trained but nonheroic orcs. Most orcs IMC would be Orc Drudges (minion 3). For humanoids I use non-minion stats mostly for leaders, champions, heroes and others who don't fall down with one hit.

In any case, if I had made them into Orc Berserkers & Raiders, then instead of a fun, fast fight & flee, it would have ground on for an hour, because it seemed 'balanced' the players probably wouldn't have known to withdraw, and there'd eventually have been a TPK as more and more orcs arrived*. Edit: As it was, going into the Underdark and encountering 9th level minions was an effective sign that this part of the sandbox was too tough for them, for now, so they knew to withdraw swiftly and plot to return later.

Edit: My orc warriors do 9 damage (weapon 5, +3 STR, +1 heavy blade focus) - many MM1 minions do too little damage as listed IMO - and I gave 50 XP per orc killed.

*Orc berserkers are statted very differently from minions, and I play them according to their stats. Berserkers can and would rush in and start swinging, they'll stick around while their friends come up later. Whereas because these orcs were mostly non-heroic minions, they took time to muster their forces before the overwhelming counter-attack. The PCs had killed 6 guards at the lair entrance and had assumed a defensive formation. They could hear the orcs mustering deeper in the caves; the war-drums and the stomp of dozens of orc-feet, before the solid mass of dozens of orc warriors came into view, bearing down on them. At which point they ran for it, nearly losing the one PC who rolled low on init.
 
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I actually consider 9th-level Orc minions to be 4th-level Orc Berserkers.

edit: That is, in the game world, they are the same creatures.

Does that mean (in your campaign) that if players run into a monster that would normally be ½ or lower their level, it becomes a equal(ish) level minion? If so, we do things the same way.
 


I'm GMing 4e right now - so far we've gone from 1st to 6th level. I DONT EVEN OWN THE DMG! It is most certainly possible ;).
 

I'm GMing 4e right now - so far we've gone from 1st to 6th level. I DONT EVEN OWN THE DMG! It is most certainly possible ;).

Well, there're guys out there who DM with only the PHB and just adapt the classes in there to make monsters. MM makes monsters easier, DMG is a good read on the loo when you're thinking of ideas for your game next week.
 

An experienced DM can probably get away without the DMG.

But that stuff is vital for a newbie DM.
This. I only ran half a dozen game sessions (in a failed campaign) before 4E, and I found the advice in the new DMG invaluable.

Nevertheless, like others, I don't use any of the books at the game table (except occasionally the PHB for skill check DCs I should just add to the DM screen or learn to improvise).
 

I haven't cracked the 4e DMG in many months. I might not again really, unless i want to look at the parcel tables. I think for a new DM it is an excellent book and it is worthy to sit among the core rules, i just don't find much use for it now that i've read it through once or twice. I hope that the DMG 2 has more crunchy innovativeness that keeps me coming back for more. From what i've heard so far it sounds like it might.
 

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