Ignoring the feat requirement for swapping...

[Zaphling]

Is it game breaking if:

1. I allow multiclassed characters, not hybrid, not to take Novice Power, Acolyte Power, Adept Power in order to acquire powers in their secondary classes? For example, my Fighter multiclassed into a Paladin, instead of taking the required feats so that my Fighter can swap his powers into a Paladin power, I just let him select powers from both classes and still follow the same rules in leveling up? Even at-wills? This issue, frees the player from the feat tax just to have a power from their second-classes.

2. I allow Essentials and Original multiclassing free swapping of powers? And not take the required feat like School of Magic Apprentice or Templar's Domain or any Class Feature Feats?
For example, my fighter levels up to 3 and can now choose one encounter power. I allow him to choose the Power Strike power from Essentials instead of the original Weaponmaster powers, without the feat requirement.
For example, I just let my Templar cleric free swap their Healer's Lore for the 1st-level Warpriest domain, and maybe the entire domain features at level 5 and 10.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I ahve thought about this a few times, and am unsure of how to balance it. One feat for changing an encounter, utility and daily seems too little, but more than 2 feats seems too much.

If I had to make a rule I would probably require two feats, the usual multiclassing and one that allowed all three switches at the appropriate levels.

I think that would be balanced

As for Essentials and Traditional, I would be even freer than that, just having one feat required for all the switches

 

[Ryujin]

IMHO it wouldn't be unbalancing if you also instituted a feature/feat divide between the primary- and multi-class, but the potential exists for some pretty unbalanced interaction. Remember; multi-class characters can typically apply the effects of both classes to what they do, whereas hybrids can't. the feats lost to taking powers from the other class, in multi-classing, typically works to maintain balance.

 

[wayne62682]

I doubt it. Those feats were always the ones that really came across as so-called "feat taxes" to me that really added nothing but punishing someone for wanting to multi-class effectively. My guess is at the time they were afraid people would see it as overpowered (many 4e designs in the original PHB seemed to be deliberately weaker than they should have been due to that reason).

I don't think it would unbalance anything.

 

[WalterKovacs]

I would say that:

(a) No on the at-will. The ability to pick up an out of class at-will is strong, so the 'price' of paragon multiclassing is probably worth it

(b) Similarly, I'd probably restrict to only one "out of class" power of each type

Being able to, for example, build an avenger, multiclass, and then take nothing but say ... Barbarian powers for your at-will, encounter, utility and dailies? Basically getting most of the barbarian's striker stuff (just lacking Rampage, which you can get as a feat once multiclassed, and your bloodline ... I'm sure plenty of people would be willing to lose the thp and free charge if they got Oath of Emnity in it's place).

For the martial classes ... if you were going with the lower threshold for power swapping for multiclass, then probably being able to swap the class features they've allowed to be swapped via feats is worth it, again restricting it to what they allow with the feats. So, a weaponmaster can get one use of power strike (with the level 7 weapon benefit) in exchange for an encounter power, and the knight or slayer can grab one encounter power in exchange for a power strike.

The warpriest/cleric thing ... that may be a bit iffy. Basically, a warpriest does not get to choose anything but his daily powers. The cleric, on the other hand, gets to pick all his powers. Getting the domain features, but not being locked in for at-will/encounter choices would make the original Cleric a much better option (he gets different divinity powers, actual ritual casting instead of daily remove affliction/raise dead powers, and lacks the utilties, and he does lose out on the shield prof, but he gets the same domain benefits without power restriction). At the very least, it should probably be single feat, like multiclassing (needing one feat to go into the class at least).

With the mage options ... it's probably easier to just have the wizard be a mage at that point.

If you are talking hybrids, I'd probably allow Hybrid Talent to get the Mage/Warpriest class feature (instead of needing to take Hybrid Talent to get something so you can take another feat to replace it with the class feature you actually want ... and then still need 2 more feats to get the higher level parts of that feature).

 

[Zaran]

I give out power swap feats for free when they purchase a multiclass feat and it's the main reason why I want to be able add extra feats with the Character Builder. I do make my players fulfil the prerequiste levels before they can swap.

What is my reasoning? One should not have to spend a feat to remove a power and replace it with an equal level power. There is no imbalance there. There is no extra benefit that goes outside the given level like a feat would grant. I will probably be doing the same thing with the Class Compendium feats that let you replace powers with other powers. I see no reason why it should cost a feat to replace a fighter power with another fighter power of equal level.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Like any balancing issue, it all comes down to how cognizant you as the DM are when it comes to the abilities of your players, as well as how detail-oriented and nitpicky your players are when it comes to building their PC.

If a player just has a power or two they want to swap because it fits the fluff designs of their character, then they're probably looking at it from a roleplaying perspective and have not gone and done the massive spreadsheet work to CharOp to an outrageous degree and thus balancing should not be much a concern. However, it'll be those players who bring you a character sheet that mix-n-matches abilities, powers and feats from multiple sources over multiple levels (most of which cannot be explained in-game as justification for why they are being taken) that is possibly trying to game you and the system to wring every last nugget of overpoweredness from it.

You just need to keep your eyes focused and be vigilant, and see how the characters play.

 

[Mengu]

What is my reasoning? One should not have to spend a feat to remove a power and replace it with an equal level power. There is no imbalance there.

It depends on whether you consider role dipping and poaching the best of two worlds, an imbalance or not.

All powers are not created equal. Class mechanics work differently, and their powers are designed according to the features and role of the class.

I feel if you go for the right power, the cost of a feat is well worth the trade for a power from another class. I had a Runepriest MC fighter, pick up Rain of Steel at level 10. I've seen a Warden pick up Come and Get It, a Shaman pick up Moment of Glory, a Barbarian pick up Rain of Blows, and a Bard pick up Wrath of the Gods. In all cases, the sacrifice of a feat seemed quite reasonable for the benefit gained.

If power swapping was free, you would certainly see more of it, but I'm afraid you might also see some repetition. I would not want to see half the party running with some crazy encounter long buff or healing that they can all poach.

Again, I don't think all powers of the same level are created equal, and as such, charging a feat to grab a better power than what your class offers you, seems like a reasonable deal.

 

[keterys]

I've spent those feats many a time, and never thought I was cheated by their cost - I was very clearly gaining power by swapping out a less good power for a stronger one, or adding a strong versatility. That said, there are so many feats available nowadays that I take them less and less, so I think it would be reasonable to make a single feat give all three benefits.

If you gave them all for free, I would likely multiclass and take advantage of it with every single character. If you're okay with just adding more power that way, that's your choice.

I would certainly like to see PMC not require 4+ feats, and also give its at-will as an extra, not a swap... PMC is a whole different kettle from someone taking a utility or daily swap.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

My take on this, if you want to hear it, is that the power swaps between the different builds of the same class, i.e. a Weaponmaster taking Power Strike, or a Slayer grabbing an encounter power, will be free at my table. They're pretty much equivalent. I might even waive the restriction that Power Strike and Backstab can only be used with an MBA, and instead have it apply to an At-will (jury's still out on that one).

I might freely allow a Templar to lose Healer's Lore (or the other granted powers in my homebrew pantheon) in exchange for the starting Domain Feature, but I'd hesitate before allowing all the other stuff without the feats.

Likewise for an Arcanist wanting a Mage School, I would let the Wizard lose its Implement Mastery for the Apprentice Benefit of ONE school without spending a feat. I have not decided if I think the other levels are balanced with the Arcanist's toolkit. My gut says it won't be an issue. I am also considering just allowing an Arcanist to buy access to the Schools as Feats without losing Implement Mastery.

I suppose I would allow a Mage to buy their way into Implement Mastery with a feat as well. I don't consider IM to be that strong a class feature.

I'd class Magic Missile as a replacement for one of the Mage's cantrips, so I would also allow an Arcanist to sacrifice a cantrip for it, on top of the other At-wills. I would also allow an Arcanist to choose their cantrips.

Power Swaps between multiclasses can be a touchier issue, because as some have pointed out, there are some potent combinations that you could put together. Each class' powers are balanced with their class features in mind, not the class features of another class. A lot of Wizard spells would be pretty potent if your Sorcerer were putting his bonus to all arcane damage behind them (though because the stats don't line up, you'd have a bit of MADness). Might be a bit worse with a Warlock with 18 Int and 18 Cha or Con.

I'd considered giving out the MC Power Swaps for free, but my solution to that is instead to make the Power Swap feats worth taking. I have each one give a skill bonus when you take it. The bonus applies to any skill from the list of the class you multiclassed into.

I also use Themes, and since there are so few available, I have a temporary rule in place that a character can poach pretty much anything from another class, provided it fits the Theme's concept, and they run it by me first. Coming up with a Theme's concept requires a bit of work and player creativity, but I find it well worth the effort.

Whew. Sorry, long post. Hope it was helpful to someone.